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Retreats

Consciousness as Spotlight: HowHumanity Became Unnaturally Great

Esalen Institute
Esalen Institute
Oct 30, 2025
7 min read
Watch · 7

In 1966, as the Vietnam War escalated and counterculture movements crested across America, philosopher Alan Watts sat down with Michael Murphy, co-founder of the Esalen Institute, for a conversation that would later become a rare archival treasure. Against the backdrop of social upheaval and the emerging psychedelic movement, Watts articulated something deceptively simple yet profoundly unsettling: humans have specialized in a particular form of consciousness that has made us monumentally unnatural—and that very unnaturalness may be our greatest achievement.

The genius of Watts lies not in platitudes about "finding yourself" or "going with the flow," though later popularizations would reduce him to such slogans. In this 1966 dialogue, he builds a rigorous argument about how the human nervous system evolved a capacity that distinguishes us from all other biological organisms: the ability to concentrate attention on isolated segments of experience. This capacity—what he calls "conscious attention"—is the evolutionary lever that built civilization, science, mathematics, architecture, and technology. But it came at a cost that Watts forces his listeners to examine directly.

Read · 5 sections

The Spotlight That Remade the World

Watts begins with a provocative reframing of how we measure success as a species. Most people, he suggests, think of biological success in terms of sheer survival duration. An ant, from this view, is enormously successful—it repeats its patterns "again and again and on and on" across millennia. But humans, as currently constructed, would find such existence appallingly dull. The question becomes: what do we value more—longevity or intensity?

To illustrate the difference, Watts offers a homely image: if you're poor and have butter in the refrigerator, do you scrape a little bit onto your bread each day so it lasts longer, or do you slather a big glob on and enjoy it fully? "See," he says, drawing out the implications. "That's the important question." A dinosaur may have been "an enormous and fantastic prodigy" that couldn't last long, "but it was great while it went on." Perhaps humans, too, are a spectacular flash rather than a sustainable burn—and maybe that's not a failure but a different kind of success altogether.

This framing matters because Watts uses it to prepare the ground for his central claim: humanity has specialized in a particular form of consciousness that has made us uniquely, magnificently unnatural. We've developed what he calls a "spotlight" to supplement the "floodlight" of generalized sensitivity that other organisms possess. Most animals experience the world through distributed awareness; humans have learned to narrow focus, to isolate segments of experience, to extract them from context.

This capacity for concentrated attention is what enables reading, writing, mathematics, music (especially reading music), architecture, engineering—any pursuit that requires analyzing and manipulating discrete units. Once you can concentrate on a segment, you can count it. You can quantify it. You can develop a systematic view.

Graph Paper Over the Window

Watts offers a vivid metaphor: imagine a landscape—say, Mount Tamalpais and the water beyond it, "a fairly wiggly formation" that isn't a neat triangle. To describe this landscape scientifically, you'd have to "paste over the window here a huge sheet of cellophane upon which graph paper patterns had been printed, squares and subsquares." Once plotted on graph paper, the landscape becomes quantifiable. You can number the squares. You can describe the natural world in terms of those numbers. You can extrapolate, predict, control.

This is how technology emerged. Through concentrated, analytical attention that breaks life's movements and rhythms "into little pieces," humanity developed the entire apparatus of civilization. The power to concentrate on segments goes hand in hand with the ability to use symbols—numbers, letters, diagrams—to represent and manipulate those segments at a distance from direct sensory experience.

But here's where Watts's argument takes a philosophical turn that 1960s listeners would recognize as either radical or dangerous, depending on their view. This same capacity that has liberated humans from immediate biological constraint has also alienated us from our embeddedness in nature. We've become, in a sense, islands of consciousness in what we think of as an unconscious, mechanistic universe. And once you accept that premise—that you are fundamentally separate from and superior to nature—war becomes inevitable.

The Illusion of Separation

The transcript opens with Watts's most stark formulation: "If we think that we are foreign, alien islands of consciousness in a universe which in itself is basically unconscious, mechanistic and stupid, then we have to declare war on the universe." This isn't metaphorical for Watts. The American relationship with nature, he argues, is fundamentally adversarial. We approach the natural world as something to be dominated, controlled, exploited—because we see ourselves as fundamentally separate from it.

Yet Watts proposes an alternative philosophical framework, one rooted in Eastern traditions he'd spent his life interpreting for Western audiences. If the universe is itself intelligent—if intelligence runs "all the way through," not just in human consciousness but in the fabric of existence itself—then our separation is an illusion created by our specialized form of attention. We've learned to see the parts so clearly that we've forgotten we're looking at an integrated whole.

This vision doesn't dismiss analytical consciousness or technology as mistakes. Rather, Watts suggests they're developments that have real value and necessity. The problem arises when we forget that this analytical view is a tool, a particular lens, not the ultimate reality. When we mistake the map for the territory, the graph paper for the landscape, we become trapped in a fractured, adversarial relationship with the natural world that sustains us.

A Species in Transition

Murphy's question to Watts carries the optimism of 1966: "Do you see man as possibly being in transition to some other even more fabulous kind of existence as a society?" Watts's answer is careful but genuine. He sees the possibility. But he grounds it not in wishful thinking but in a sober acknowledgment of where we are. We are, by his estimation, "as crazy as we can possibly get"—and yet that very craziness might be the high point of a cosmic cycle, something that "may be repeated again in another 10 to the 59 years on some other galaxy."

For Watts, the path forward isn't a return to some prelapsarian innocence or a wholesale rejection of analytical consciousness. Instead, it requires developing a new relationship with our capacity for focused attention—using it without being trapped by it, maintaining analytical rigor while recovering the sense of participation in a living, intelligent cosmos. This was precisely the intellectual atmosphere that Esalen, in its formative years, was designed to cultivate: a space where Eastern contemplative traditions and Western psychological and scientific inquiry could genuinely meet, each enriching the other.

What makes this 1966 conversation remarkable is that it captures Watts at the moment when this synthesis was not yet a cliché, when the questions he and Murphy raise feel genuinely open and unsettled. The social upheaval surrounding them—Vietnam, the emergence of counterculture, the questioning of institutional authority—provided real urgency to these philosophical inquiries. They weren't abstract. They were about how a civilization based on separation, control, and adversarial relationship to nature might transform itself at the deepest level.

Where to Go From Here

For readers encountering these ideas today, Watts's framework remains provocatively relevant. We live in an era of unprecedented technological sophistication and environmental crisis—precisely the dialectic Watts identified. Our capacity to analyze, quantify, and control nature has enabled comfort and knowledge while generating ecological catastrophe. The question he posed in 1966 is still urgent: Can we develop a form of human consciousness that retains analytical power while recovering a sense of participation in nature rather than domination of it?

The full conversation between Watts and Murphy—of which this is part one—continues to explore these themes with the freedom and imaginative depth that characterized Esalen's early years. For those interested in the deeper philosophical foundations of the human potential movement, and for those seeking to understand how Eastern philosophy entered the Western intellectual mainstream, this archival recording offers both historical insight and living ideas that continue to provoke genuine thought.

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Transcript

[0:04] If we think that we are foreign,

[0:09] alien islands of consciousness

[0:12] in a universe which in itself is

[0:15] basically unconscious, mechanistic and

[0:18] stupid,

[0:20] then we have to declare war on the

[0:22] universe.

[0:25] >> Welcome to Voices of Esin. I'm Sam

[0:27] Stern. This is a dialogue from 1966

[0:32] between Elin co-founder Michael Murphy

[0:34] and philosopher Alan Watts, which is

[0:37] notable for both its superb content and

[0:40] for being one of the only instances I've

[0:41] ever encountered of Michael Murphy

[0:43] conducting an interview himself. But

[0:45] hey, when it's Alan Watts, I mean, I

[0:47] guess all bets are off. So, first off,

[0:50] who is Alan Watts? He's born in England

[0:53] but moved to the United States in 1938

[0:56] to pursue Zen training in New York. Then

[0:58] he attended a theological seminary and

[1:00] he got a master's degree in theology. He

[1:03] became an Episcopal priest in 1945. He

[1:06] left the ministry in 1950 and it was at

[1:09] that point that he moved to California

[1:11] where he joined the faculty of the

[1:13] American Academy of Asian Studies. And

[1:15] it was during the 1950s that number one,

[1:18] he got a radio show on KPFA where he

[1:20] begins to talk about Eastern

[1:23] contemplative traditions. And he met

[1:26] Elon co-founders Dick Price and Michael

[1:28] Murphy, both of whom were kicking around

[1:30] the Bay Area after their stints at

[1:33] Stanford trying to figure out what the

[1:35] heck they were doing with their lives.

[1:36] It's also widely known that Watts comes

[1:39] to represent this pivotal figure in the

[1:41] transmission of Eastern philosophical

[1:43] traditions to western intellectual

[1:45] discourse. So by the time this

[1:47] conversation rolls around in 1966, Watts

[1:50] had long since established himself as a

[1:52] rather famous interpreter of Zen

[1:54] Buddhism, Dowoism, and Hindu metaphysics

[1:57] for American audiences. So we're talking

[1:59] the Beats, the early hippies, young

[2:02] people, intellectuals. They were all

[2:04] fascinated by Zen and the I-ching and

[2:06] Buddhism. And at Esselin, where Alan

[2:09] Watts taught from the very first days in

[2:11] 1962 up until his death in 1973, he

[2:14] really found an ideal context for

[2:16] exploring the synthesis between those

[2:18] eastern contemplative traditions and

[2:21] this western psychological inquiry which

[2:23] was coming to the forefront especially

[2:25] at places like Eselin. This conversation

[2:28] that Murphy and Watts have occurs at a

[2:31] moment of considerable social upheaval.

[2:34] Obviously, you know, you've got an

[2:35] escalation of American involvement in

[2:38] Vietnam. You've got the Johnson

[2:40] presidency becoming increasingly

[2:42] unpopular because of that. Got the

[2:44] emergence of several countercultural

[2:46] movements, including the civil rights

[2:48] movement and this more or less new

[2:50] hippie psychedelic culture. Right? So

[2:52] there's this widespread questioning of

[2:55] established institutional authority and

[2:57] it's within this millu that Watts and

[2:59] Murphy examine fundamental questions

[3:02] about human consciousness and the

[3:04] peculiarities of American cultural

[3:06] expression. And of course it's all

[3:08] delivered in that million-dollar voice

[3:10] by Mr. Alan Watts. I mean this guy could

[3:13] read a Denny's menu and make it sound

[3:15] profound.

[3:16] So, here's Alan Watts interviewed by

[3:19] Michael Murphy in 1966.

[3:25] >> So far, most people think about the

[3:28] success of a biological species as in

[3:31] terms of the length of time for which it

[3:33] survives.

[3:35] And so for from this point of view, an

[3:37] ant is an enormously successful

[3:39] non-historical animal that goes on and

[3:43] on and on repeating the same pattern

[3:44] again and again. Now this might be

[3:47] something towards which human beings

[3:50] could aspire. But the way most of us are

[3:53] at present constructed, we would find

[3:55] this appallingly dull. And therefore

[3:58] when

[3:59] some kinds of scientists or philosophers

[4:02] say that survival

[4:05] is the prime criterion of value. There

[4:10] is the opposite point of view that the

[4:13] criterion of value does involve survival

[4:16] because of course you have to live and

[4:18] go on living to do anything at all. But

[4:21] that superimposed on that there must be

[4:25] surviving in a certain way.

[4:28] Now

[4:30] you know that TS Elliott suggested at

[4:33] the end of the wasteland that this is

[4:35] the way the world ends not with a bang

[4:37] but a whimper.

[4:39] And Chesterton uh once said, "You may go

[4:43] off with a whimper, but we will go off

[4:45] with a bang." Because for those people

[4:48] who would rather

[4:50] be a big flash and a in a great

[4:53] significant explosion, then eke life out

[4:56] sensibly

[4:57] and providently and in a really rather

[5:00] misily way so that it lasts a long long

[5:03] time. I mean, if you've got a some

[5:04] butter in the refrigerator and uh what

[5:07] are you going to do if you're rather

[5:08] poor? Are you going to put a big nice

[5:11] glob of butter on a piece of bread and

[5:13] have it or you going to scrape a little

[5:14] bit off each day and put it over the

[5:16] bread so that you hardly notice it's

[5:18] there? See? Now, that's the important

[5:21] question. So, in a way, you could say

[5:24] that the dinosaur

[5:26] uh was an enormous and fantastic

[5:30] prodigy. such an enormous thing couldn't

[5:32] last very long, but it was great while

[5:34] it went on. Maybe it was, I don't know,

[5:36] but it's certainly, one could say this

[5:38] of human beings that uh we may be a

[5:41] mistake. I could give you all kinds of

[5:44] reasons for saying that the human race

[5:47] is an aberration, is an abnormality, is

[5:50] the most uh unnatural thing imaginable.

[5:53] But on the other hand, one could also

[5:55] say, but it's the most magnificently

[5:57] unnatural thing.

[6:00] and to have lived in the human race and

[6:02] of the human race say now in the 20th

[6:05] century when we are as crazy as we can

[6:07] possibly get as far as I can see.

[6:10] Nevertheless, this may be the high point

[6:13] in a whole cycle of the cosmic process

[6:18] and only be repeated again in another 10

[6:21] to the^ of 59 years on some other

[6:24] galaxy.

[6:27] Do you see um man as possibly being um

[6:31] in transition to some other even more

[6:34] fabulous kind of existence as a as a

[6:38] society?

[6:40] >> Well, I do see the possibility of this.

[6:43] Uh let's go back a little and see what

[6:45] um really has happened. Man is a

[6:48] biological

[6:50] phenomenon which has concentrated or

[6:53] specialized on certain ways of

[6:57] developing his consciousness or his

[6:59] awareness.

[7:01] And it seems to me that the thing that

[7:03] marks man out from other types of

[7:06] biological organization and particularly

[7:09] marks out the human nervous system from

[7:12] other kinds of nervous system is the

[7:14] capacity of the human being to

[7:17] concentrate

[7:18] on small areas or shall I say

[7:24] separated off areas of experience.

[7:27] It's as if we had developed a flood

[7:30] light, I mean a a spotlight to

[7:33] supplement the flood light of the more

[7:36] generalized sensitivity of other

[7:39] organisms.

[7:41] That is to say, the faculty of the mind

[7:44] in which human beings have specialized

[7:47] is what we call conscious attention.

[7:49] This is the faculty that we have to use

[7:51] for any kind of literary or scientific

[7:54] pursuit to read, to write, to play

[7:58] music, especially to read music, to do

[8:02] mathematics, to do architecture, to do

[8:05] engineering. Any kind of pursuit of that

[8:08] kind requires the capacity to

[8:11] concentrate our attention upon segments

[8:14] of experience. And these segments we

[8:16] call things and events.

[8:20] Once you can concentrate on a segment,

[8:23] you can count the segments,

[8:27] you can quantify them

[8:32] and

[8:34] then begin to have

[8:38] a view of the world

[8:42] that is as if

[8:45] you had taken an ordinary landscape

[8:48] Say we're sitting here now and we're

[8:50] looking at Mount Tamil Py and the water

[8:53] and Mount Tamil Py is a fairly wiggly

[8:57] formation.

[8:59] It isn't by any means a triangle sitting

[9:02] up there.

[9:04] But in order to talk about the landscape

[9:07] we're looking at from a scientific point

[9:09] of view, we should have to paste over

[9:11] the window here a huge uh sheet of

[9:15] cellophane

[9:17] upon which graph paper patterns had been

[9:20] printed

[9:21] squares and subsquares. You see, then we

[9:25] could number all those squares and we

[9:29] could describe the landscape beyond in

[9:32] terms of the numbers on the squares.

[9:35] In that way, we would have some sort of

[9:38] rigorous

[9:40] scientifically accurate description

[9:43] of the natural landscape we're looking

[9:45] at. And as you know once you get things

[9:49] plotted on graph paper you can start to

[9:51] make extrapolations

[9:54] and predictions of the way a curve will

[9:56] move. And so it is in this way that by a

[10:00] kind of concentrated attention that can

[10:03] analyze

[10:04] the movements and the rhythms of life

[10:07] into little pieces.

[10:09] We have developed the whole of

[10:11] technology.

[10:14] Now it must be understood that the power

[10:18] to concentrate on segments of life goes

[10:21] hand in hand with an ability to use

[10:24] symbols.

[10:26] That is to say to use numbers, to use

[10:29] words or to use say musical notation to

[10:33] represent the events and the things

[10:36] which this kind of analytical

[10:40] dissective concentration can single out

[10:44] in the vast continuum of the experience

[10:49] of our five senses. So this capacity to

[10:53] attend consciously to the details of the

[10:56] world seems to me to be the very

[10:58] distinctive things that the human race

[11:00] has evolved. But at the same time

[11:05] for all the advantages it has, it has

[11:07] some startling limitations.

[11:09] It might be said to have two limitations

[11:12] which are quite serious. Number one is

[11:16] that a capacity

[11:19] to see the world in all this separate

[11:24] analyzed detail prevents you from seeing

[11:27] the other side of the picture which is

[11:29] the way in which things are related to

[11:30] each other. I mean it's a famous story

[11:32] that u in medicine a specialization goes

[11:36] so far that one kind of surgeon knows

[11:40] understands only hearts another only

[11:42] stands understands throats another only

[11:44] understands teeth another only

[11:46] understands brains and they work upon

[11:49] human beings rather like automobile

[11:50] mechanics they deal with these

[11:53] particular organs in the human being as

[11:55] if they corresponded to mechanical parts

[11:58] like a distributor or carburetor or

[12:00] whatever it might me. And so they go on

[12:02] fussing around in one place and unaware

[12:06] that their alterations of the human

[12:08] brain or their alterations of the human

[12:11] heart have effects on the stomach or the

[12:13] thyroid gland or whatever and then they

[12:16] suddenly discover that they are like the

[12:17] sorcerer's apprentice that they have

[12:20] found the magic to bring about a certain

[12:23] change but then they can't control the

[12:25] results of this. See, so the great

[12:27] difficulty of analytical thinking of

[12:31] seeing the world as an amalgamation, a

[12:34] kind of collection of things and events

[12:36] is that it obscures appreciation of the

[12:41] inseparable interrelatedness of all

[12:43] these things. The second difficulty,

[12:48] the second difficulty that arises from

[12:50] this is a natural emergence of the

[12:53] first. In other words, if you start to

[12:57] view the world as a collection of

[13:01] separate things that as it were have

[13:03] come together, you are going to be

[13:05] looking at the human being himself as a

[13:09] thing separate from other things. And

[13:12] here you get into very serious trouble.

[13:14] The trouble of the first thing is that

[13:16] you don't see relationships adequately.

[13:18] The trouble of the second is the special

[13:21] instance of this that you don't see the

[13:23] relationship between man and his natural

[13:26] environment.

[13:28] Now let's take two images. Number one is

[13:33] uh

[13:34] a barren tree upon which a group of

[13:37] birds have settled. The birds came from

[13:39] somewhere else. They didn't grow on the

[13:42] tree like leaves or fruit. They just

[13:44] settled there. And the

[13:46] characteristically western and modern

[13:48] view of man's place in nature is despite

[13:51] everything that has been said about

[13:52] evolution that man is a stranger in the

[13:54] world and he's settled on it just like

[13:56] birds on a barren tree. The other image

[13:59] would of course be the tree with the

[14:01] fruit and the leaves on it that had

[14:02] grown out of it and that really belong

[14:04] to it. And although from a theoretical

[14:07] point of view the biological sciences

[14:10] show and the zological sciences show

[14:12] that we have evolved out of the earth

[14:14] just in the same way as the grass. This

[14:16] is not the practically operative

[14:20] philosophy of man's nature that lies

[14:23] behind the development of western

[14:25] technology. The practically operative

[14:28] philosophy is that although man may have

[14:31] evolved out of the natural matrix that

[14:35] he did so by a sheer fluke that by a

[14:38] sheer fluke he has acquired an

[14:41] intelligence and a set of values and a

[14:44] set of emotions which because they are

[14:47] fluky that is to say might happen only

[14:49] once in god knows how many millions of

[14:51] years. They are therefore something

[14:54] which nature itself does not support.

[14:56] Something which is really antagonistic

[14:59] to nature and that if man is to maintain

[15:03] his identity and his peculiar values he

[15:06] has got to fight with nature to

[15:09] establish them.

[15:14] This, mind you, is a a philosophy

[15:19] which emerged out of the scientific

[15:22] thought of the 19th century.

[15:26] It could equally well have emerged out

[15:28] of the thought of Plato,

[15:31] which is the poles apart from the

[15:33] philosophy of science of the 19th

[15:35] century. Plato uh is largely responsible

[15:38] for our thinking of man as a spirit

[15:41] imprisoned in matter. The philosophy of

[15:44] science of the 19th century wouldn't

[15:46] acknowledge the existence of any spirit.

[15:48] But they substituted for the word spirit

[15:50] the word fluke. You see and this will

[15:54] equally well do for the will of God. You

[15:57] see the will of God as Christians and

[16:00] Jews conceived it is pretty arbitrary.

[16:02] God does what he wants to do. And what

[16:04] he does is by definition, right? And so

[16:07] suddenly it says in the Bible, one day

[16:09] the Lord was sort of wandering around

[16:11] and whoops, he created great whales.

[16:14] And you know, there was really no reason

[16:16] for there being great whales. It was

[16:18] just a feat of imagination that this

[16:20] fantastic fish should arise or whatever

[16:23] they are. And there you have it. So in

[16:26] the same way, whoops, he suddenly

[16:27] thought up man. Well, that's the same

[16:30] thing in to all intents and purposes as

[16:32] a fluke.

[16:34] and uh it has no what you might call

[16:39] rational continuity with anything that

[16:41] went before.

[16:43] It was as unpredictable as hiccups.

[16:47] So uh in this kind of way of looking at

[16:52] things, if you look at man as a fluke or

[16:56] as a kind of evolutionary hiccups,

[16:59] then you've got your image of man

[17:02] arriving on the tree of existence like a

[17:04] bird from a distant place

[17:07] and he has no real rational relationship

[17:11] to his environment. But all this seems

[17:14] to me to be belied

[17:16] by

[17:18] biological and ecological studies

[17:23] which show so clearly that man could

[17:27] only exist in the kind of environment

[17:30] that we have. In other words, that an

[17:33] environment

[17:35] which includes a sun and a planet with a

[17:38] moon

[17:40] with a certain kind of atmosphere with

[17:43] trees with a certain kind of uh cosmic

[17:47] rays and oxygen and uh condensation of

[17:51] water and so on. That environment is as

[17:55] much a manrowing environment as an apple

[17:58] tree is an appleing tree. So that the

[18:03] kind of nature in which we live is human

[18:06] nature just as an apple tree is an apple

[18:10] tree. If humans grow on this planet, you

[18:13] see, then it's a human planet. And all

[18:16] this idea that that's the pathetic

[18:18] fallacy that we are reading human values

[18:20] into nature which is inhuman. That idea

[18:23] of the pathetic fallacy is based on the

[18:25] assumption that man and nature have

[18:27] nothing to do with each other. If man is

[18:28] a product of nature, then nature is a

[18:31] human ining nature. And you could say

[18:33] carrying it very far that you don't find

[18:36] an intelligent organism in an

[18:38] unintelligent environment. You see,

[18:40] ecology shows us more and more that if

[18:43] you describe the behavior of an organism

[18:45] and you describe it thoroughly, you are

[18:48] very soon describing the behavior of the

[18:50] environment. You can't say what an

[18:52] organism is doing unless at the same

[18:55] time and in the same breath you tell us

[18:58] what the environment is doing. It means

[19:00] nothing to describe the action of a

[19:03] human being walking. Unless you talk

[19:05] about the space in which he is walking.

[19:07] If you don't talk about the space in

[19:09] which he is walking, all that you're

[19:10] describing is a human being dangling in

[19:12] midair moving his legs backwards and

[19:15] forwards. But if he's to walk, you've

[19:17] got to describe the relationship of the

[19:19] moving of the legs backwards and

[19:20] forwards to a ground. And so you you

[19:23] start to talk about the environment. Now

[19:24] that's the very very simple illustration

[19:26] of something that becomes far more

[19:28] complex that uh so that when you get to

[19:32] the end of it, you have to conclude

[19:34] there isn't on the one hand the behavior

[19:36] of the human being and or of the

[19:38] organism and on the other hand the

[19:40] behavior of the environment.

[19:43] They are both the same thing.

[19:48] That is to say, you can replace the old

[19:52] idea of an organism in an environment by

[19:56] a new idea, which is that the

[19:58] environment is a field and that this

[20:01] field

[20:03] operates and that all actions within the

[20:07] field are the actions of the field. For

[20:10] example, when you have water boiling,

[20:13] the bubbles come up only at certain

[20:15] places. But the bubbles in the boiling

[20:18] water are a property of the whole field.

[20:21] The water is evenly hot, shall we say,

[20:23] all the way through, but the bubbles

[20:25] only emerge at certain places. So in the

[20:27] same way our environment is equally

[20:29] intelligent all the way through but the

[20:31] intelligence only emerges and the

[20:34] activity of intelligence only emerges at

[20:36] certain places where you might say there

[20:39] are cross points of stress of a certain

[20:41] kind so that intelligence emerges in the

[20:43] same way in the field of a science say

[20:46] the field of physics talking now with

[20:48] field in the academic sense of the word

[20:50] field all physicists have a certain

[20:52] amount of knowledge that they share in

[20:54] common and they keep circulating this

[20:56] knowledge uh among each other through

[20:58] their journals and articles and so on.

[21:01] And then suddenly five physicists in

[21:04] different parts of the world who don't

[21:05] know each other at all hit upon the same

[21:08] discovery at the same time in exactly

[21:10] the same way that when the water is

[21:11] ready to boil, a number of sources of in

[21:15] the water start producing bubbles at the

[21:18] same time because the the state of the

[21:20] field reaches a critical point at which

[21:23] shall we say these discoveries break

[21:25] out. Now the the difficulty is that the

[21:29] analytical

[21:30] separative way of thinking makes it very

[21:33] hard for people to understand

[21:36] that they themselves individually

[21:39] are functions of a field. If we don't

[21:42] understand that and if we think instead

[21:46] that we are foreign alien islands of

[21:50] consciousness in a universe which in

[21:52] itself is basically unconscious,

[21:55] mechanistic and stupid, then we have to

[21:58] declare war on the universe and fight

[22:00] for our place in it as if we didn't

[22:02] belong.

[22:04] Now that's what we're doing.

[22:07] Western man

[22:09] has a an avowed philosophy of the

[22:12] conquest of nature. And in the United

[22:15] States, which is the most,

[22:18] I suppose, in some ways the most

[22:19] technologically advanced country in the

[22:22] world,

[22:23] you see on every side evidence of a

[22:26] spirit of warfare between man and his

[22:29] environment. Here he has one of the most

[22:32] magnificent environments

[22:34] into which human beings ever moved

[22:38] in terms of natural resources

[22:42] and natural beauty. But what does he do?

[22:45] He behaves as if he had no more brains

[22:47] than a locust.

[22:49] He has a devised an engine known as a

[22:51] bulldozer

[22:53] with which he can push down mountains.

[22:58] He builds in the Hollywood Hills where

[23:01] I've been staying recently

[23:04] tracked areas that would normally be

[23:06] found somewhere in a valley or a plane.

[23:10] And he slices off great chunks of the

[23:12] hills and makes them flat lots upon

[23:14] which he can erect a conventional ranch

[23:16] house. This so upsets the ecology of the

[23:19] hill and the water streams and the

[23:23] vegetation life that when the next rains

[23:26] come, the parts of the uh terrace begin

[23:29] to drop down into the valley and uh um

[23:34] erosion begins. You see, because he

[23:36] hasn't sensibly studied the hill, he

[23:39] hasn't paid respect to the hill. That

[23:41] is, you see, he may think that some

[23:43] African or uh Asian savage is a stupid

[23:48] fellow because he regards the hill as a

[23:52] god and pays respect to it every

[23:54] morning. But that's this so-called

[23:57] primitive man is quite correct that you

[24:00] must pay respect to all natural

[24:03] phenomena to bodies of water to lakes to

[24:06] mountains to forests because they and

[24:12] you yourself as a man

[24:15] are what you are as a result of an

[24:17] extremely complicated balance of forces

[24:20] which is so subtle that it at present

[24:23] time still exceeds the comprehension

[24:26] of man's rational intellect.

[24:29] We would have to work out perhaps with

[24:31] the aid of computers and all sorts of uh

[24:35] complex machines for describing very

[24:39] very intricate networks of relationship.

[24:41] We would have to work out just how it is

[24:44] that the bunch of trees over there

[24:46] manages to stay there.

[24:49] So many factors are involved now. But we

[24:52] don't have that respect, you see, for

[24:55] something beyond our comprehension.

[24:57] We've got that respect to some extent

[24:59] for our own nervous system. Our

[25:01] neurologists know how little they know

[25:03] about it. And so they treat it with

[25:06] great care. They don't, as it were, rush

[25:08] in where angels fear to tread. But we

[25:10] haven't got the same point of view with

[25:12] regard to the physical environment. And

[25:15] so we go banging it around. We fill our

[25:18] soil with all kinds of chemicals that

[25:21] are caricaturures of uh the chemical

[25:25] constitution of a naturally found

[25:28] nourishing soil. We really don't know

[25:29] what we're doing. I don't want to say

[25:31] this to uh take the point of view that

[25:34] technology should therefore be

[25:36] abandoned. The point of view is rather

[25:38] that it should proceed with a good deal

[25:40] more respect, a good deal more caution

[25:42] and in a different spirit because the

[25:45] spirit is very important. The way you do

[25:47] a thing is in many ways quite as

[25:50] important as what you do. If I want you

[25:52] to pass me the salt at table and I say

[25:55] to you pass the salt, that has one

[25:58] effect. But if I say to you, would you

[26:01] please be so kind as to pass me the

[26:03] salt? That has another result. And so in

[26:07] the same way in our approach to animals

[26:10] and forests

[26:12] and um geological surroundings uh an an

[26:17] attitude of I could even say loving

[26:20] respect as if that were our own physical

[26:25] body an extension of the body.

[26:30] This would be far more productive and

[26:32] creative. It isn't just as if because it

[26:34] is a fact that

[26:37] the natural environment is

[26:40] continuous with the human body because

[26:44] that kind of embodying that kind of

[26:46] organization which we call man is

[26:50] something which the total environment is

[26:52] doing. It isn't something from outside

[26:54] that has been put into that environment

[26:56] as if some mysterious bird from another

[26:59] cosmos had laid human eggs here on earth

[27:03] like a cuckoo lays its eggs in another

[27:05] bird's nest. They grow here and belong

[27:07] to it.

[27:09] >> There are uh

[27:11] then emergent qualities

[27:13] uh occurring always in nature. the

[27:16] evolutionary process tosses up uh new

[27:20] modes of being. Um

[27:25] do you think this is still going on with

[27:28] people?

[27:33] I suppose it is because

[27:38] human beings uh constantly toss up new

[27:44] uh versions of the good life. So that

[27:48] there is a sort of

[27:50] in the same way as you might say nature

[27:52] experiments.

[27:54] I would rather say nature plays with

[27:57] different forms of life because you see

[27:59] I don't think that nature is uh

[28:03] seriously purposive. I think nature is

[28:06] playful.

[28:07] Nature

[28:09] is not under any compulsion

[28:12] to arrive at some goal as if nature were

[28:15] punching clocks in some sort of a

[28:17] business. You see uh I I think nature is

[28:21] a way of in the way in which existence

[28:24] in which being celebrates itself and

[28:28] this involves an almost infinitely

[28:31] inventive genius for variety. Variety

[28:35] based upon a certain sameness

[28:39] just as u the variety of spokes around

[28:43] the rim of the wheel are based upon the

[28:45] unity of the hub. so that you have

[28:47] colossal variety in nature. But I don't

[28:50] seem I don't see this variety as

[28:52] constituting a kind of pilgrimage

[28:56] towards some far-off divine event to

[28:58] which all creation moves. I see it far

[29:01] more in the spirit of exuberance.

[29:06] I mean we all talk about how nature is

[29:08] exuberant. how uh every tree produces

[29:12] far more seeds than ever will turn into

[29:15] trees. Now according to your philosophy

[29:18] of economics, you will interpret this.

[29:21] See if it used to be said that uh nature

[29:26] produces all these seeds just to be sure

[29:28] that one or two of them will get

[29:30] through. Now that was based on the ideas

[29:33] of efficiency experts, industrial

[29:36] efficiency experts working in the 19th

[29:38] century who influenced the philosophy of

[29:40] science accordingly. See, but they never

[29:42] thought of the the idea that it might be

[29:44] enormous fun to have all these seeds

[29:46] even if only a few of them come out.

[29:49] Same with human beings. The Catholic

[29:51] philosophy is that you ought only to

[29:52] have sexual intercourse for the purpose

[29:54] of reproducing the species. Well, they

[29:56] didn't know in the Middle Ages that

[29:58] human semen contained millions of

[30:01] potential human beings and that even if

[30:03] you only had intercourse once in 18

[30:05] months with your wife, uh you would

[30:07] waste millions of human beings. They

[30:09] didn't know that. You see, now on the

[30:11] same principle, uh you could actually

[30:13] have intercourse every night, you see,

[30:16] and have no intention of producing human

[30:18] beings at all, but do it just because it

[30:19] was fun and because it brought you

[30:21] together. So in exactly the same way you

[30:23] could say all these trees are showering

[30:25] seeds in all directions. Not because

[30:28] this is some

[30:30] engineeringly efficient method of

[30:33] getting a statistically effective number

[30:36] through you see but just because it's a

[30:38] great thing to do. I mean look at the

[30:40] sky. What you could say an enormous

[30:43] number of these stars probably are not

[30:46] like our sun and don't support a solar

[30:48] system. Therefore, they are they've gone

[30:51] to waste. They're not doing anything.

[30:53] They're not driving anything. You see,

[30:55] uh here are all the streams flowing down

[30:57] the mountain side. And here on Tamil Pis

[31:01] there are maybe uh 60 to 70 streams.

[31:05] None of them working a water wheel. And

[31:07] a lot of them just flow into the Pacific

[31:08] Ocean. See? Well, and I can think of in

[31:11] uh your country in Big Su, I can think

[31:14] of all those canyons there where full of

[31:16] flowers and trees and ferns that nobody

[31:19] ever looks at. And you might say, well,

[31:21] they're a total waste. I know a

[31:23] particular valley there where there's a

[31:24] hot waterfall and that hot waterfall

[31:27] flows and flows and flows and only very

[31:29] rarely does anybody ever take a shower

[31:30] under it. Uh now, should it be turned

[31:33] into a public park? Should everybody

[31:35] come and queue up and have the thing

[31:37] enclosed in a box and they all take a

[31:39] shower from it? I mean, that would be

[31:41] awful. The whole thing would be ruined.

[31:43] But just see, there are these things

[31:45] that go on in nature. Flowers that bloom

[31:48] in valleys unseen by men. They have no

[31:51] use.

[31:53] They are not for reproduction of

[31:54] flowers. They are sheer exuberance.

[31:57] They are just for the hell of it.

[32:03] Thank you for listening to Voices of

[32:04] Eselin. This episode was produced in

[32:06] conjunction with Shar Lavine. Our theme

[32:08] song is by Nico Hollowerman. Next week,

[32:11] we'll be back with part two of this

[32:13] interview. In terms of editing this

[32:15] tape, I pretty much left it alone, apart

[32:17] from getting rid of some obvious audio

[32:19] glitches and long pauses. I do try to

[32:23] take the pauses out. I composed the

[32:25] introduction to this podcast in

[32:26] collaboration with Claude, a large

[32:28] language model.

[32:30] Until next time, be well.

[32:33] [Music]

[32:53] Amazing.

Esalen Institute
ArtistEsalen Institute

Esalen Institute is a nonprofit retreat center on 27 coastal acres in Big Sur where co-founders Michael Murphy and Dick Price launched the Human Potential Movement in 1962. Famous…

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Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

Watts argued that humans evolved a unique capacity for concentrated analytical attention—like a spotlight—that allows us to isolate and examine segments of experience in detail. This ability enabled science, technology, and mathematics, but also separated us from the holistic awareness other animals possess.
When we see ourselves as separate from nature through our analytical lens, we treat the natural world as something to dominate and control rather than as an intelligent system we're part of. Watts argued that this separation creates an adversarial relationship with the environment itself.
No. Watts valued analytical consciousness and the technologies it enabled, but he argued we need to use them without being trapped by them—maintaining rigor while recovering the sense that humans participate in nature rather than standing apart from it.
Esalen, founded in 1962, became a unique space where Eastern contemplative traditions could meet Western psychological inquiry. Alan Watts taught there from its founding until his death in 1973, helping synthesize these traditions at a moment when counterculture was questioning Western institutional authority.
Watts uses this everyday image to illustrate a philosophical choice: Is it better to survive a long time by using resources sparingly (like spreading butter thin daily), or to live intensely and fully even if it means shorter duration? He suggests humans might choose magnificent intensity over mere longevity.
The Vietnam War was escalating, the Johnson presidency was becoming unpopular, and countercultural and civil rights movements were emerging. This social upheaval provided urgent context for Watts and Murphy's philosophical questions about human consciousness and our relationship to authority and nature.

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