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Inspiration

Iron John: The Wild Man and Modern Male Initiation

Robert Bly
Robert Bly
Jul 6, 2020
10 min read

Robert Bly's reading of Iron John argues that modern men face a cultural crisis: the worn-out masculine images of popular culture no longer sustain adult manhood, yet the well-intentioned turn toward receptivity and the "feminine side" over the past decades has left many men depleted and passive. Through the Iron John fairy tale and other ancient myths, Bly proposes that men need access to deep masculine energy—not the domineering, savage mode that harms women and the earth, but the "wild man" energy of discipline, mentorship, fierce feeling, and grounded presence. This requires initiation: a deliberate break from the mother's realm, engagement with older male figures, and integration of both strength and sensitivity.

Read · 8 sections

Why Popular Images of Manhood Have Failed

Bly begins with a cultural diagnosis: by the time a man reaches 35, he recognizes that the images of manhood transmitted in his youth—the white man, the tough man, the true man—no longer work in actual life. The popular culture has offered him models that are fundamentally exhausted. This crisis is not accidental; it reflects real ruptures in how boys are raised and how men understand their role.

Bly traces the recent arc of American manhood through distinct eras. In the 1950s, a model emerged: the responsible, disciplined man who arrived at work early, supported his family, and admired order. Reagan embodied a "mummified version" of this type. This man had real strengths, but underneath lay profound isolation, deprivation, and passivity. He did not see women's souls clearly, though he appreciated their bodies. He remained somewhat boyish in his worldview.

The 1960s ruptured this consensus. Vietnam and the feminist movement forced men to question whether they truly understood adulthood. If manhood meant that war, did they want it? Meanwhile, the women's movement pushed men to examine their own complicity and to develop awareness of the feminine consciousness within themselves. This was not wrong—Bly acknowledges it as "wonderful" and "important." Yet something has gone unaddressed.

The Soft Male and the Problem of Receptivity Alone

Over the past 20 years, particularly since the 1970s, Bly observed a phenomenon: the rise of the "soft male." These men are often lovely and valuable. They harbor no desire to harm the earth or wage wars. They possess a genuine gentleness. Yet many are deeply unhappy. They lack energy. As Bly notes, they are "life-preserving but not exactly life-giving."

The paradox deepens when these soft men partner with strong women. Ironically, the woman often radiates the vital energy that the man lacks. Bly learned the depth of this anguish directly. In 1980, at a men-only gathering in the Llama community in New Mexico, younger men began speaking in small groups. Within five minutes of sharing, many were weeping. The grief was profound.

Part of this grief stemmed from remoteness from their fathers—a wound Bly identifies as central to modern male crisis. But another part arose from relational failure. These men had learned to be receptive, yet receptivity alone could not sustain their marriages or partnerships. "In every relationship something fierce is needed once in a while," Bly observes. Both man and woman require access to that fierceness. Yet when the moment came, the soft man often "came up short." He was nurturing, but something else was required—something the journey into softness had not provided.

What Myths Teach That Culture Cannot

Bly argues that the old fairy tales, myths, and legends carry knowledge that contemporary culture has lost or actively suppressed. The images in these stories—stealing the key from under the mother's pillow, picking up a golden feather from the firebird's burning breast, finding the wild man beneath the lake, following the tracks of one's own wound through the forest—are not meant to be consumed quickly. They must be "taken slowly into the body" and allowed to "continue to unfold once taken in."

Why? Because human beings, unlike birds (which carry mating dances, nest-building, and migration routes in their instinctual brain), chose to store knowledge outside instinct. Humans store it in stories. Fairy tales, myths, and legends function as "a reservoir where we keep new ways of responding that we can adopt when the conventional and current ways wear out." When the 1950s male breaks down and the soft male proves insufficient, where do men turn? To the old stories, which have been filtered through "fifty feet of soil" and "generations of men and women." Their images are more trustworthy than those "invented by Hans Christian Andersen."

From the old myths, Bly identifies specific lessons. From the Zeus stories, men learn that positive leadership energy exists in men—despite what popular culture declares. From King Arthur, they learn the value of the male mentor in a young man's life. From the Iron John story itself, they learn "the importance of moving from the mother's realm to the father's realm." And from all initiation stories, they learn that it is "essential to leave our parental expectations entirely and find a second father or a second king."

The Distinction Between Savage and Wild

Bly is careful to define terms. Throughout his work, he distinguishes between the savage man and the wild man—a distinction he calls "crucial."

The savage mode inflicts great damage on soul, earth, and humankind. The savage is wounded but refuses to examine the wound. He acts out his pain destructively. By contrast, the wild man has examined his wound. He "resembles a zen priest or a shaman or a woodsman" more than a savage. The wild man possesses instinctual knowledge—intuition, emotion, connection to the body—but tempered by reflection and discipline.

This matters because Bly must address the fear that calling men back to power or fierceness means returning to domination and the repression of women. He is explicit: "This work does not seek to turn men against women nor to return men to the domineering mode that has led to repression of women and their values for centuries." The grief in men has grown steadily since the industrial revolution. The dark side of men—exploitation of earth, humiliation of women, obsession with tribal warfare—is undeniable. But the solution is not to erase masculine energy; it is to transform it.

The defect lies not in masculine depth of feeling but in the "defective mythologies" that have taught men to place themselves in the sky instead of on earth, to obey the wrong powers, and to become entangled in systems of industrial domination that exclude both genuine patriarchy and genuine matriarchy. The wild man energy, properly integrated, does not dominate; it grounds, protects, and acts with fierce presence.

The Crisis of Father-Absence and Maternal Entanglement

A central thread in Bly's diagnosis is the absence of fathers and the resulting over-reliance on mothers. He cites Alice Miller's work: when a father's capacity for cruelty or abuse is discovered, the entire category of maleness can become suspect in a boy's psyche. If this father was evil, the boy may conclude (unconsciously), perhaps all males are evil.

But there is a deeper structural problem. Many boys are raised in households where the father is absent—whether through death, divorce, or work culture that keeps him distant. Even when the father is physically present, modern parenting styles often place boys under maternal or female guidance (school teachers, counselors, relatives) for much of their development. The boy learns to suppress his own instinctual energy to please the women in his life.

The problem intensifies when boys reach adolescence and young manhood. Without an older man to initiate them—to say, in effect, "You are ready to leave the mother's realm and enter the father's realm"—they remain psychologically bound to maternal expectations. They become "soft males" who know how to be agreeable but lack access to the fierce, grounded presence that adult relationships and adult work require.

The Wild Man in the Lake: The Iron John Story Begins

Bly introduces the Iron John story (also called Iron Hans, first set down by the Grimm Brothers around 1820) as a map for this initiation journey. The story opens with an image: a wild man living in a lake or cage, guarded by a mother-figure. A young boy—the prince or the king's son—must steal the key from under the mother's pillow, unlock the wild man's cage, and venture into the unknown forest with him.

This is not rebellion for its own sake. It is the archetypal male initiation: the deliberate rupture from the mother's protection, the encounter with wild masculine energy (initially dangerous and unkempt), and the beginning of a journey toward integrated manhood. The boy does not reject the mother; he transcends her realm. He does not become savage; he becomes wild—grounded, aware, fierce when needed, but also disciplined and connected to something larger than his own ego.

The Iron John story offers what neither the 1950s model nor the soft male mode provides: a third way. It is neither domineering patriarchy nor passive receptivity. It is the way of the initiated man—one who has broken with parental expectations, encountered older male guides, integrated his instinctual nature with his conscious will, and learned to act with both compassion and fierceness.

Why Men Need Initiation, Not Just Development

Bly emphasizes that the contemporary men's movement, insofar as it has encouraged men to welcome their feminine consciousness and nurture it, has done something important. Yet he suggests that this alone is insufficient. Men need more than development of the feminine side; they need initiation into a deeper masculine consciousness.

Initiation, as Bly understands it, requires several elements: separation from the maternal realm, encounter with an older male (a "second father" or mentor), acknowledgment and integration of one's own wound, and entry into a community of men engaged in similar work. It is not a stage that can be completed and forgotten; it is an ongoing process of deepening presence, responsibility, and fierce compassion.

The journey that men have taken into softness and receptivity is valuable. But "more travel lies ahead. No stage is the final stop." The Iron John story is one map for that further journey—a guide to the wild man energy that modern culture has suppressed and that soft males have unconsciously rejected.

Where to Go from Here

For readers seeking to understand the male crisis in contemporary culture, Bly's reading of Iron John provides both diagnosis and direction. The problem is not that men have become too gentle or too conscious of women's experience; the problem is that in welcoming these capacities, men have abandoned access to their own depth, their own fierce presence, their own grounded power. The solution is not to reverse course but to deepen the journey—to find the wild man within, to accept initiation from older men and from the old stories, and to integrate the full spectrum of human consciousness: both receptive and fierce, both gentle and strong, both individual and communal. Readers interested in exploring this further might engage directly with the Iron John story itself, seek out men's circles or mentoring relationships, or investigate other mythological and fairy-tale sources that Bly references throughout his work.

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Transcript

[0:03] [Music]

[0:17] iron john

[0:18] a book about men

[0:19] [Music]

[0:29] we are living at an important and

[0:30] fruitful moment now

[0:32] for it is clear to men that the images

[0:35] of adult manhood

[0:36] given by the popular culture are worn

[0:38] out

[0:39] a man can no longer depend on them by

[0:42] the time a man is 35

[0:45] he knows that the images of the white

[0:47] man the tough man

[0:48] the true man which he received in high

[0:51] school

[0:52] do not work in life such a man is open

[0:55] to visions of what a man is or could be

[0:58] the hearth and fairy stories have passed

[1:01] as water through fifty feet of soil

[1:03] through generations of men and women and

[1:06] we can trust their images

[1:08] more than say those invented by hans

[1:09] christian andersen

[1:11] the images the old stories give stealing

[1:15] the key from under the mother's pillow

[1:17] picking up a golden feather fallen from

[1:19] the burning breast of the firebird

[1:21] finding the wild man under the lake

[1:23] water following the tracks of one's own

[1:26] wound

[1:27] through the forest and finding that it

[1:28] resembles attacks of a god

[1:31] these are meant to be taken slowly into

[1:33] the body

[1:35] they continue to unfold once taken in

[1:38] it is in the old myths that we hear for

[1:40] example of zeus energy

[1:42] that positive leadership energy in men

[1:46] which popular culture constantly

[1:47] declares does not exist

[1:49] from king arthur we learn the value of

[1:51] the male mentor

[1:53] in the lives of young men we hear from

[1:56] the iron john story

[1:57] the importance of moving from the

[1:59] mother's realm to the father's realm

[2:02] and from all initiation stories we learn

[2:04] how essential it is

[2:06] to leave our parental expectations

[2:08] entirely

[2:09] and find a second father or a second

[2:12] king

[2:13] there is male initiation female

[2:15] initiation and human initiation

[2:18] in the following text i will be talking

[2:20] about male initiation only

[2:23] i want to make clear that this work does

[2:26] not seek to turn men against women

[2:28] nor to return men to the domineering

[2:31] mode that has led to repression of women

[2:33] and their values for centuries

[2:36] the thought in this work does not

[2:37] constitute a challenge to the women's

[2:39] movement

[2:40] the two movements are related to each

[2:42] other but each moves

[2:44] on a separate timetable the grief in men

[2:47] has been increasing steadily since the

[2:49] start started the industrial revolution

[2:51] and the grief has reached a depth now

[2:53] that cannot be ignored

[2:55] the dark side of men is clear

[2:59] their mad exploitation of earth

[3:01] resources

[3:02] devaluation and humiliation of women

[3:05] obsession with tribal warfare are

[3:07] undeniable

[3:09] genetic inheritance contributes to their

[3:12] obsessions but also culture

[3:14] and environment we have defective

[3:17] mythologies

[3:18] that ignore masculine depth of feeling

[3:20] assign men a place in the sky

[3:23] instead of earth teach obedience to the

[3:26] wrong powers

[3:27] work to keep men boys and entangle

[3:30] both men and women in systems of

[3:33] industrial domination

[3:35] that exclude both matriarchy and

[3:37] patriarchy

[3:39] i speak of the wild men on this tape and

[3:42] the distinction between the savage man

[3:44] and the wild man

[3:45] is crucial throughout the savage mode

[3:48] does great damage to soul earth and

[3:50] humankind

[3:52] we can say that though the savage is

[3:54] wounded he prefers

[3:55] not to examine it the wild man who has

[3:59] examined his wound

[4:00] resembles a zen priest or a shaman or a

[4:03] woodsman

[4:04] more than a savage the knowledge of how

[4:08] to build a nest in a bare tree

[4:09] how to fly to the wintering place how to

[4:12] perform the mating dance

[4:13] all of this information is stored in a

[4:15] bird in the reservoirs of its

[4:17] instinctual brain

[4:19] but human beings sensing how much

[4:21] flexibility they might need

[4:23] in meeting new situations decided to

[4:25] store

[4:26] this sort of knowledge outside the

[4:28] instinctual systems

[4:30] and they stored it in fairy stories

[4:34] stories then fairy stories legends myths

[4:37] heart stories amount to a reservoir

[4:40] where we keep new ways of responding

[4:43] that we can adopt

[4:44] when the conventional and current ways

[4:47] wear out

[4:50] and we talk a great deal about the

[4:51] american man as if there was some

[4:54] constant quality that remains stable

[4:56] over decades or even within a single

[4:57] decade

[4:59] the men who live today have veered far

[5:01] away from the saturnian

[5:02] old man-minded farmer proud of his

[5:05] introversion

[5:06] who arrived in new england in 1630

[5:08] willing to sit through three services

[5:10] in an unheated church in the south

[5:14] an expansive mother-bound cavalier

[5:17] developed

[5:18] and neither of these two american men

[5:20] resembled

[5:21] the greedy railroad entrepreneur that

[5:23] later developed in the northeast

[5:25] nor the reckless i will do without

[5:27] culture settlers of the west

[5:30] even in our own era the agreed-on model

[5:32] has changed dramatically

[5:34] during the fifties for an example an

[5:36] american character appeared with some

[5:38] consistency

[5:39] that became a model of manhood adopted

[5:41] by many men

[5:42] namely the 50s male he got to work early

[5:46] labored responsibly supported his wife

[5:48] and children and admired discipline

[5:50] reagan is a sort of mummified version of

[5:52] this dogged type

[5:54] this sort of man didn't see women's

[5:55] souls well but he appreciated their

[5:57] bodies

[5:58] and his view of culture and america's

[6:00] part in it was boyish and optimistic

[6:03] many of his qualities were strong and

[6:04] positive but underneath the charm and

[6:07] bluff

[6:08] there was and still remains much

[6:10] isolation

[6:11] deprivation and passivity unless he has

[6:14] an enemy

[6:15] he isn't sure that he's alive during the

[6:18] sixties

[6:19] another sort of man appeared the waste

[6:21] and violence of the vietnam war

[6:23] made men question whether they knew what

[6:25] an adult male really was

[6:27] if manhood meant vietnam did they want

[6:29] any part of it

[6:31] meanwhile the feminist movement

[6:32] encouraged men to actually look at women

[6:35] forcing them to become conscious of

[6:36] concerns and sufferings that the fifties

[6:39] male

[6:39] labored to avoid as men began to examine

[6:42] women's history and women's

[6:44] sensibilities

[6:44] some men began to notice what was called

[6:47] their feminine side

[6:48] and to pay attention to it this process

[6:51] continues to this day and i would say

[6:54] that most contemporary men are involved

[6:55] in it in some way

[6:57] there's something wonderful about this

[6:59] development i mean the practice of men

[7:01] welcoming their

[7:02] own feminine consciousness and nurturing

[7:04] it this is important

[7:06] and yet i have the sense that there is

[7:08] something wrong

[7:09] the male in the past 20 years has become

[7:12] more thoughtful

[7:13] and more gentle but by this process he

[7:16] has not become

[7:17] more free in the 70s i began to see all

[7:21] over the country

[7:22] a phenomenon that we might call the soft

[7:24] male

[7:25] sometimes even today when i look out in

[7:27] an audience perhaps

[7:29] half the young males are what i'd call

[7:31] soft they're lovely

[7:33] valuable people i like them they're not

[7:35] interested in harming the earth or

[7:37] starting wars

[7:38] there's a gentle attitude toward life

[7:40] and their whole being and style of

[7:42] living

[7:43] but many of these men are not happy you

[7:45] quickly notice the lack of energy in

[7:47] them

[7:48] they are life preserving but not exactly

[7:50] life-giving

[7:51] ironically you often see these men with

[7:54] strong women who positively radiate

[7:56] energy

[7:58] first learned about the anguish of

[7:59] so-called soft men

[8:01] when they told their stories in early

[8:02] men's gatherings

[8:04] in 1980 the llama community in new

[8:06] mexico

[8:07] asked me to teach a conference for men

[8:09] only their first

[8:11] in which about 40 men participated each

[8:13] day we concentrated on one greek god

[8:16] and one old story and then late in the

[8:18] afternoons we gathered to talk

[8:20] when the younger men spoke it was not

[8:22] uncommon for them

[8:24] to be weeping within five minutes the

[8:26] amount of grief and anguish in these

[8:28] younger men was astounding to me

[8:31] part of their grief rose out of

[8:32] remoteness from their fathers

[8:34] which they felt keenly but partly to

[8:37] grief flowed from trouble in their

[8:38] marriages or relationships they had

[8:40] learned to be receptive

[8:42] but receptivity wasn't enough to carry

[8:44] their marriages through troubled times

[8:46] in every relationship something fierce

[8:48] is needed once in a while

[8:50] both the man and the woman need to have

[8:52] it but at the point when it was needed

[8:55] often the young man came up short he was

[8:57] nurturing

[8:58] but something else was required for his

[9:00] relationship and for his life

[9:03] the journey many american men have taken

[9:05] into softness or receptivity or

[9:08] quote development of the feminine side

[9:10] unquote has been an immensely valuable

[9:12] journey

[9:13] but more travel lies ahead no stage is

[9:16] the final stop

[9:19] one of the fairy tales that speak of a

[9:21] third possibility for men a third mode

[9:23] is a story called iron john or iron hans

[9:27] thought was first set down by the grim

[9:28] brothers around 1820

[9:30] this story could be ten or twenty

[9:32] thousand years old

[9:33] as the story starts we find that

[9:36] something strange has been happening

[9:37] in the remote area of the forest near

[9:39] the king's castle

[9:41] when hunters go into this area they

[9:42] disappear and never come back

[9:44] 20 others go after the first group and

[9:46] do not come back

[9:48] in time people begin to get the feeling

[9:50] that there's something weird in that

[9:51] part of the forest and quote

[9:52] they don't go there anymore unquote one

[9:55] day an unknown hunter shows up at the

[9:57] castle and says

[9:59] uh what can i do anything dangerous to

[10:01] do around here

[10:02] the king says well i could mention the

[10:05] forest but there's a problem

[10:06] the people who go there don't come back

[10:09] the return rate

[10:10] is not good oh that's just the sort of

[10:12] thing i like the young man says

[10:14] so he goes into the forest and

[10:16] interestingly he goes there alone taking

[10:17] only his dog

[10:19] the young man and his dog wander about

[10:21] in the forest and they go past the pond

[10:23] suddenly a hand reaches up from the

[10:25] water grabs the dog and pulls it down

[10:28] the young man doesn't respond by

[10:29] becoming hysterical he merely says

[10:32] this must be the place found as he is of

[10:36] his dog

[10:36] and reluctant as he is to abandon him

[10:38] the hunter goes back to the castle

[10:40] rounds up three more men with buckets

[10:42] and then comes back to the pond to

[10:44] bucket out the water

[10:45] anyone who's ever tried it will quickly

[10:47] note that such bucketing

[10:49] is very slow work in time what they find

[10:52] lying in the bottom of the pond

[10:54] is a large man covered with hair from

[10:56] head to foot the hair is

[10:58] reddish it looks a little like rusty

[11:00] iron

[11:01] they take the man back to the castle and

[11:03] imprison him the king puts him in an

[11:05] iron cage in the courtyard

[11:07] calls him iron john and gives the key

[11:10] into the keeping of the queen

[11:14] let's stop the story here for a second

[11:17] when a contemporary man looks down into

[11:19] his psyche he may if conditions are

[11:21] right

[11:21] find under the water of his soul lying

[11:24] in an area no one has visited for a long

[11:26] time

[11:26] an ancient hairy man the mythological

[11:30] systems associate hair

[11:31] with the instinctive and the sexual and

[11:33] the primitive

[11:35] what i'm suggesting then is that every

[11:37] modern male has

[11:38] lying at the bottom of a psyche a large

[11:41] primitive being

[11:42] covered with hair down to his feet

[11:44] making contact with this wild man

[11:46] is the step the 80s male or the 90s male

[11:49] has yet to take

[11:51] that bucketing out process has yet to

[11:53] begin

[11:54] in our contemporary culture as the story

[11:57] suggests very delicately there's more

[11:59] than little fear around this hairy man

[12:02] as there is around all change when a man

[12:05] begins to develop

[12:06] the receptive side of himself and gets

[12:08] over his initial skittishness

[12:11] he usually finds the experience to be

[12:12] wonderful he gets to write poetry and go

[12:15] out and sit by the ocean

[12:16] he doesn't have to be on top and sex

[12:18] anymore he becomes empathetic

[12:21] it's a new humming surprising world

[12:24] but going down through water to touch

[12:26] the wild man at the bottom of the pond

[12:28] is quite a different matter

[12:29] the being who stands up is frightening

[12:32] and seems even more so now

[12:34] when the corporations do so much work to

[12:36] produce the sanitized hairless

[12:38] shallow man when a man welcomes his

[12:41] responsiveness or what we sometimes call

[12:43] his

[12:43] internal woman he often feels warmer

[12:46] more companionable more alive

[12:48] but when he approaches what i'll call

[12:50] the quotation mark deep mail

[12:52] unquote he feels risk welcoming the

[12:56] hairy man is scary and risky and it

[12:58] requires a different kind of courage

[13:00] contact with iron john requires a

[13:02] willingness to descend

[13:04] into the male psyche and accept what's

[13:06] down there

[13:07] including the nourishing dark

[13:12] now back to the story one day the king's

[13:15] eight-year-old son is playing in the

[13:16] courtyard with a golden ball that he

[13:18] loves

[13:18] and it rolls into the wild man's cage if

[13:21] the young boy wants the ball back he's

[13:23] going to have to approach the hairy man

[13:24] and ask for it

[13:26] but this is going to be a problem the

[13:29] golden ball reminds us of that unity of

[13:31] personality we had as children

[13:33] a kind of radiance or wholeness before

[13:35] we split into male and female rich and

[13:37] poor bad and good

[13:39] the ball is golden as the sun is and

[13:41] round

[13:42] like the sun it gives off a radiant

[13:45] energy from the inside

[13:47] we notice that the boy is eight all of

[13:49] us whether boys or girls lose something

[13:51] around the age of eight

[13:53] if we still have the golden ball in

[13:55] kindergarten we lose it in grade school

[13:57] whatever is still left we lose in high

[13:59] school whether we are male or female

[14:01] once the golden ball

[14:02] is gone we spend the rest of our lives

[14:04] trying to get it back

[14:06] the iron john story proposes that the

[14:08] golden ball lies within the magnetic

[14:10] field of the wild man

[14:12] which is a very hard concept for us to

[14:14] grasp

[14:15] we have to accept the possibility that

[14:17] the true radiant energy

[14:19] in the male does not hide in reside in

[14:22] or wait for us

[14:23] in the feminine realm nor in the macho

[14:26] john wayne realm

[14:27] but in the magnetic field of the deep

[14:30] masculine

[14:31] it is protected by the instinctive one

[14:35] who's underwater and who has been there

[14:37] we don't know how long

[14:40] most men want some nice person to bring

[14:42] the ball back

[14:43] but the story hints that we won't find

[14:45] the golden ball

[14:46] in the force field of an asian guru or

[14:49] even the force field of a gentle jesus

[14:52] our story is not anti-christian but

[14:54] pre-christian by a thousand years or so

[14:57] and its message is still true getting

[14:59] the golden ball back

[15:01] is incompatible with certain kinds of

[15:03] conventional

[15:04] tameness and niceness the first step

[15:08] amounts

[15:08] to approaching the cage and asking for

[15:10] the golden ball back some men are ready

[15:13] to take that step

[15:14] while others haven't yet bucketed the

[15:16] water out of the pond

[15:18] they haven't left the collective male

[15:19] identity and gone out into the unknown

[15:21] area alone or gone only with their dog

[15:24] the story says that after the dog in

[15:26] quotes goes down unquote

[15:28] one has to start to work with buckets no

[15:31] giant is going to come along and suck

[15:33] all the water out for you

[15:35] that magic stuff is not going to help

[15:37] and the weekend at esslin won't do it

[15:39] acid or cocaine won't do it the man has

[15:42] to do it

[15:43] bucket by bucket this resembles the slow

[15:46] discipline of art

[15:47] it's the work that rembrandt did that

[15:49] picasso and yates and wilker and bach

[15:51] did

[15:52] bucket work implies much more discipline

[15:54] than most men realize

[15:56] jung remarked that all successful

[15:58] requests to the psyche

[15:59] involve deals the psyche likes to make

[16:02] deals

[16:03] if a part of you for example is

[16:04] immensely lazy and doesn't want to do

[16:06] any work

[16:07] a flat out new year's resolution won't

[16:09] do any good

[16:10] the whole thing will go better if you

[16:12] say to your lazy part

[16:14] you let me work for an hour and then

[16:15] i'll let you be a slob for now is that a

[16:17] deal

[16:18] so in iron john a deal is made the wild

[16:21] man agrees to give the golden ball back

[16:23] if the boy opens a cage the boy

[16:27] apparently frightened runs off he

[16:29] doesn't even answer

[16:30] isn't that what happens we have been

[16:32] told so often by parents ministers grade

[16:34] school teachers high school principals

[16:36] that we should have nothing to do with

[16:37] the wild man that when he says

[16:40] i'll return the ball if you let me out

[16:42] of the cage

[16:43] we don't even reply

[16:47] maybe 10 years pass now on the second

[16:50] day

[16:52] the man could be twenty five he goes

[16:54] back to the wild man and says

[16:55] could i have my ball back the wild man

[16:58] says yes

[16:59] if you let me out of the cage actually

[17:02] just returning to the wild man a second

[17:04] time is a marvelous thing

[17:06] some men never come back at all the 25

[17:09] year old

[17:10] man hears the sentence all right but by

[17:12] now he has two toyotas and a mortgage

[17:14] maybe a wife and a child how can he let

[17:16] the wild men out of the cage

[17:18] the man usually walks away the second

[17:20] time also without saying a word

[17:23] now ten more years pass let's say the

[17:26] man is now 35

[17:28] have you ever seen the look of dismay on

[17:30] the face of a 35 year old man

[17:32] feeling overworked alienated empty he

[17:35] asked the wild man with full heart this

[17:37] time

[17:37] could i have my golden ball back he

[17:40] asked the wild man says

[17:41] if you let me out of my cage

[17:45] now something marvelous happens in the

[17:47] story the boy speaks to the wild man and

[17:49] continues the conversation

[17:51] he says even if i wanted to let you out

[17:54] i couldn't because i don't know where

[17:55] the key is

[17:57] that's so good by the time we are 35 we

[18:01] don't know where the key is

[18:03] it isn't exactly that we've forgotten we

[18:05] never knew

[18:06] where it was in the first place the

[18:08] story says

[18:09] that when the king locked up the wild

[18:11] man he gave the key into the keeping of

[18:13] the queen

[18:15] but we were only about seven then and in

[18:17] any case our father never told us

[18:19] what he had done with it so where is the

[18:22] key

[18:23] the wild man replies the key is under

[18:27] your mother's pillow

[18:30] getting the key back from under the

[18:31] mother's pillow is a troublesome task

[18:34] freud taking advice from a greek play

[18:36] says that a man should not skip over the

[18:38] mutual attraction between himself and

[18:40] his mother

[18:41] if he wants a long life the mother's

[18:44] pillow after all

[18:45] lies near where she makes love to your

[18:47] father

[18:49] moreover there's another implication

[18:50] attached to the pillow

[18:52] michael mead the storyteller once

[18:54] remarked to me that the pillow is also

[18:56] the place where the mother stores all

[18:58] her expectations of you

[19:00] she dreams my son the doctor my son the

[19:03] union analyst

[19:05] my son the wall street genius but very

[19:08] few mothers dream

[19:09] my son the wild man attacking the mother

[19:12] confronting her shouting at her

[19:14] with some freudians opponent to urge us

[19:16] on probably does not accomplish much

[19:18] she may just smile and talk to you with

[19:21] her elbow

[19:22] and the pillow so the key has to be

[19:25] stolen

[19:26] i recall talking to an audience of men

[19:28] and women once about this problem of

[19:30] stealing the key

[19:31] a young man obviously well trained in

[19:34] new age modes of operation

[19:35] said robert i'm disturbed by this idea

[19:38] of stealing the key

[19:40] stealing isn't right couldn't a group of

[19:42] us just go to the mother and say mom

[19:44] could i have the key back his model was

[19:48] probably

[19:49] consensus work the way the staff at the

[19:52] health food store settles things

[19:54] i felt the souls of all the women in the

[19:56] room rise up in the air to kill him

[19:59] men like that are as dangerous to women

[20:01] as they are to men

[20:03] no mother worth or salt would give the

[20:05] key away anyway if the son can't steal

[20:07] it he doesn't deserve it

[20:09] mothers are intuitively aware of what

[20:11] happens if he got the key

[20:13] they would lose their boys the

[20:15] possessiveness that mothers typically

[20:17] exercise on sons

[20:18] not to mention the possessiveness that

[20:20] fathers typically exercise on daughters

[20:23] can never be underestimated we could

[20:26] spend days talking about how to steal

[20:27] the key in a practical way

[20:29] the story itself leaves everything open

[20:32] and simply says

[20:33] one day he stole the key brought it to

[20:35] the wild man's cage and opened the lock

[20:37] as he did so he pinched one of his

[20:39] fingers

[20:41] that detail will become important in the

[20:43] next part of this story

[20:45] the wild man is then free at last and

[20:47] it's clear that he will go back to his

[20:48] own forest

[20:49] far from the castle

[20:52] the boy in our story or the 35 year old

[20:55] man in our mind

[20:56] however you want to look at it now does

[20:59] something marvelous

[21:00] he speaks to the wild man once more and

[21:01] says wait a minute

[21:03] if my parents come home and find you

[21:05] gone they will beat me

[21:08] that sentence makes the heart sink

[21:10] particularly

[21:11] if we know something about child-rearing

[21:12] practices that have prevailed for a long

[21:14] time in northern europe

[21:16] as alice miller reminds us in her book

[21:18] for your own good

[21:20] child psychologists in 19th century

[21:22] germany

[21:23] warn parents especially about exuberance

[21:27] exuberance in a child is bad and at the

[21:30] first sign of it parents should be

[21:32] severe exuberance implies that the wild

[21:36] man or girl is no longer locked up

[21:38] if they come home and find you gone they

[21:41] will beat me

[21:42] the boy says the wild man says in effect

[21:45] that's good thinking you'd better come

[21:47] with me

[21:49] so the wild man lifts the boy up on his

[21:51] shoulders and together they go off into

[21:52] the woods

[21:53] that's decisive we should all be so

[21:55] lucky

[21:57] as the boy leaves for the forest he has

[21:58] to overcome at least for the moment

[22:01] his fear of wildness irrationality

[22:04] hairiness intuition emotion the body and

[22:07] nature

[22:08] iron john is not as primitive as the boy

[22:10] imagines but the boy

[22:12] or the mind doesn't know that yet

[22:15] still the clean break with the mother

[22:17] and father which the old initiators call

[22:18] for

[22:19] now has taken place iron john says to

[22:21] the boy

[22:22] you'll never see your mother and father

[22:24] again but i have treasures more than

[22:26] you'll ever need

[22:28] so that is that

[22:31] the moment the boy leaves with iron john

[22:33] is the moment in ancient greek life

[22:35] when the priest of dionysius accepted a

[22:37] young man as a student

[22:39] or the moment in eskimo life today when

[22:41] the shaman sometimes entirely covered

[22:43] with the fur of wild animals

[22:45] appears in the village and takes a boy

[22:47] away for spirit instruction

[22:49] in our culture there's no such moment

[22:51] the boys in our culture

[22:52] have a continuing need for initiation

[22:54] into male spirit

[22:55] but old men in general don't offer it

[22:58] the priest sometimes tries but he's too

[23:00] much a part of the corporate village

[23:02] these days

[23:04] the fault of the nuclear family today

[23:05] isn't so much that it's crazy and full

[23:07] of double binds

[23:09] that's true in communes and corporate

[23:11] offices too in fact in any group

[23:13] the fault is that the old man outside

[23:15] the nuclear family

[23:16] no longer offer an effective way for the

[23:18] son to break his link with his parents

[23:20] without doing harm to himself

[23:23] the ancient societies believed that a

[23:25] boy becomes a man only through ritual

[23:27] and effort only through quote active

[23:30] intervention of the older men unquote

[23:33] it's becoming clear to us that manhood

[23:35] doesn't happen by itself

[23:37] it doesn't happen just because we eat

[23:38] wheaties the active intervention of the

[23:41] older men

[23:42] means that the older men welcome the

[23:44] younger man into the ancient

[23:46] mythologized instinctual male world

[23:50] once that welcoming has been done the

[23:52] older men teach him the myths stories

[23:54] and songs that embody distinctly male

[23:56] values

[23:57] i mean not competitive values only but

[23:59] spiritual values

[24:01] once these quote moistening unquote

[24:04] myths

[24:04] are learned the myths themselves lead

[24:06] the young male

[24:08] far beyond his personal father and into

[24:10] the moistness of the swampy fathers

[24:12] who stretch back century after century

[24:15] in the absence of old man's labor

[24:18] consciously done

[24:19] what happens initiation of western men

[24:21] has continued for some time

[24:23] in an altered form even after fanatics

[24:26] destroyed

[24:26] the greek initiatory schools during the

[24:29] 19th century grandfathers and uncles

[24:31] lived in the house

[24:32] and older men mingled a great deal

[24:34] through hunting parties and work that

[24:36] men did together in farms and cottages

[24:38] through local sports

[24:40] older men spent much time with younger

[24:41] men and brought knowledge of male spirit

[24:44] and soul

[24:44] to them much of that chance or

[24:47] incidental mingling has ended

[24:49] men's clubs and societies have steadily

[24:52] disappeared

[24:53] grandfathers live in phoenix or the old

[24:54] people's homes

[24:56] and many boys experience only the

[24:58] companionship of other boys their age

[25:00] who from the point of view of the old

[25:01] initiators know nothing

[25:03] at all during the sixties some young men

[25:06] drew

[25:06] strength from women who in turn had

[25:08] received some of their strength from the

[25:10] women's movement

[25:11] one could say that many young men in the

[25:13] sixties tried to accept initiation from

[25:16] women

[25:17] but only men can initiate men as only

[25:20] women

[25:20] can initiate women so what can be done

[25:25] thousands and thousands of women being

[25:27] single parents or raising boys with no

[25:29] adult man in the house

[25:30] the difficulties inherent in that

[25:32] situation came up one day

[25:34] in evanston when i was giving a talk an

[25:36] initiation of men

[25:38] to a group made up mostly of women

[25:41] women who were raising sons alone were

[25:43] extremely alert to the dangers

[25:45] of no male model one woman declared that

[25:47] she realized about the time her son got

[25:49] to high school age and he needed more

[25:51] hardness

[25:52] than she could naturally give but she

[25:54] said if she made herself harder to meet

[25:56] that

[25:56] need she would lose touch with her own

[25:58] femininity i mentioned the classic

[26:00] solution in many traditional cultures

[26:02] which is

[26:03] to send the boy to his father when he's

[26:04] 12. several women said flatly

[26:06] no men aren't nurturing they wouldn't

[26:08] take care of him

[26:10] many men however and i am one of them

[26:12] have found inside an ability to nurture

[26:14] that didn't appear until it was called

[26:15] for

[26:17] even when the father is living in the

[26:18] house there still may be a strong covert

[26:20] bond between mother and son to evict the

[26:22] father

[26:22] which amounts to a conspiracy and

[26:24] conspiracies are difficult to break

[26:27] one woman with two sons had enjoyed

[26:29] going each year to a convention in san

[26:30] francisco with her husband

[26:32] the boys being lifted home but one

[26:35] spring having just returned from a

[26:37] woman's retreat she felt like being

[26:38] private and said to her husband

[26:40] why don't you take the boys this year so

[26:43] the father did

[26:44] the boys around 10 or 12 and never as it

[26:47] turned out experienced their father's

[26:48] company without the mother's presence

[26:50] after that experience they asked for

[26:51] more time with their dad

[26:53] when the convention time rolled around

[26:55] the following spring the mother once

[26:57] more decided on privacy and the boys

[26:59] once more set off with their father

[27:00] the moment they arrived back home the

[27:02] mother happened to be standing in the

[27:04] kitchen

[27:05] whether back to the door and the older

[27:07] the two boys walked over

[27:09] and put her arms around her from the

[27:10] back without even intending it

[27:13] her body reacted explosively and the boy

[27:15] flew across the room and bounced off the

[27:17] wall

[27:18] when he picked himself up she said their

[27:20] relationship had changed

[27:22] something irrevocable had happened she

[27:25] was glad about the change

[27:26] and the boy seemed surprised and a

[27:28] little relieved

[27:29] that he apparently wasn't needed by her

[27:32] in the old way

[27:34] another woman told a story in which the

[27:36] mother-son conspiracy was broken from

[27:38] the boy's side

[27:39] she was a single parent of a son and two

[27:41] daughters and the girls were doing well

[27:43] but the boy was not at 14 the boy went

[27:45] to live with his father but he stayed

[27:47] only a month or so and then came back

[27:49] when he returned the mother realized

[27:51] that three women in the house

[27:52] amounted to an overbalance of feminine

[27:54] energy for the son

[27:56] but what could she do a week or two went

[27:58] by

[27:59] one night she said to her son john it's

[28:01] time to come to dinner

[28:02] she touched him on the arm and he

[28:04] exploded and she flew against the wall

[28:06] the same sort of explosion as in the

[28:08] earlier story

[28:09] we noticed no intent of abuse either

[28:11] time and no evidence that the event was

[28:13] repeated

[28:14] in each case the psyche or body knew

[28:17] what the mind didn't

[28:18] when the mother picked herself up off

[28:20] the floor she said

[28:22] it's time for you to go back to your

[28:24] father and the boy said

[28:26] you're right the traditional initiation

[28:29] break is preferable and sidesteps the

[28:31] violence

[28:32] but all over the country now one sees

[28:34] hulking sons acting ugly in the kitchen

[28:36] and talking rudely to their mothers and

[28:38] i think it's an attempt to make

[28:40] themselves unattractive

[28:42] if the old men haven't done their work

[28:44] to interrupt the mother-son unity

[28:46] what else can the boys do to extricate

[28:48] themselves but to talk ugly

[28:50] it's quite unconscious and there's no

[28:51] elegance in it at all

[28:53] a clean break from the mother is crucial

[28:55] but it's simply not happening

[28:57] this doesn't mean that the women are

[28:59] doing something wrong i think the

[29:00] problem is more

[29:01] that the older men are not really doing

[29:04] their job

[29:06] the traditional way of raising sons

[29:08] which lasted for thousands and thousands

[29:10] of years

[29:11] amounted to fathers and sons living in

[29:13] close murderously close proximity

[29:16] while the father taught the son of trade

[29:18] perhaps farming or

[29:19] carpentry or blacksmithing or tailoring

[29:22] the love unit most damaged by the

[29:24] industrial revolution has been the

[29:26] father-son

[29:27] bond there's no sense in idealizing

[29:30] pre-industrial culture

[29:32] yet we know that today many fathers now

[29:34] work 30 or 50 miles from the house

[29:36] and by the time they return at night the

[29:38] children are often in bed and they

[29:39] themselves are too tired to do active

[29:41] fathering

[29:42] the german psychologist alexander

[29:44] mitchell writes about this father-son

[29:46] crisis in his book called

[29:48] society without the father the gist of

[29:51] his idea

[29:52] is that if the son does not actually see

[29:54] what his father does

[29:56] during the day and through all the

[29:57] seasons of the year

[29:59] a whole will appear in the sun psyche

[30:01] and the whole will fill with demons

[30:04] who tell him that his father's work is

[30:06] evil and the father is evil

[30:09] the son's fear that the absent father is

[30:11] evil contributed to student takeovers

[30:14] in the sixties rebellious students at

[30:17] columbia university

[30:18] took over the president's office looking

[30:20] for evidence of cia involvement with the

[30:22] university

[30:23] the students fear that their own fathers

[30:25] were evil was transferred to all male

[30:27] figures in authority

[30:30] a university like a father looks upright

[30:32] and decent on the outside but underneath

[30:34] somewhere you have the feeling that it

[30:36] and he are doing something demonic

[30:38] that feeling becomes intolerable because

[30:40] the son's

[30:41] inner intuitions become incongruous with

[30:44] outer appearances

[30:45] the unconscious intuitions come in not

[30:47] because the father is wicked

[30:49] but because the father's remote young

[30:52] people

[30:53] go to the trouble of invading the

[30:54] president's office to bridge this

[30:56] incongruity

[30:57] the country being what it is

[30:59] occasionally they do find letters from

[31:00] the cia

[31:01] but this doesn't satisfy the deeper

[31:03] longing the need of the son's body

[31:06] to be closer to the father's body when

[31:09] the demons are so suspicious

[31:11] how can the son later make any good

[31:13] connection with adult male energy

[31:15] especially the energy of an adult man in

[31:17] the position of authority

[31:18] or leadership as a musician he will

[31:21] smash handcrafted guitars made by old

[31:23] men

[31:24] as a citizen he will take part in

[31:26] therapy rather than politics

[31:28] he will feel pure when not in authority

[31:32] there's a general assumption now that

[31:34] every man in a position of power is or

[31:36] will soon be corrupt and oppressive

[31:38] yet the greeks understood and praised

[31:40] the positive male energy

[31:42] that has accepted authority they called

[31:44] it zeus energy

[31:45] which encompasses intelligence robust

[31:48] health

[31:49] compassionate decisiveness good will

[31:52] generous leadership

[31:54] zeus energy is male authority accepted

[31:57] for the sake of the community

[31:59] zeus energy has been steadily

[32:01] disintegrating decade after decade in

[32:03] the united states

[32:04] popular culture has been determined to

[32:06] destroy respect for it

[32:08] beginning with the maggie and jiggs and

[32:09] blondie and dagwood comics

[32:11] of the 1920s and 1930s in which a man is

[32:14] always weak and foolish

[32:15] from there the image of the weak adult

[32:17] man went into animated cartoons

[32:19] the father in contemporary tv ads never

[32:22] knows what cold medicine to take

[32:25] and in situation comedies the cosby show

[32:27] notwithstanding

[32:28] men are devious bumbling or easy to

[32:30] outwit

[32:31] it is the women who outwit them and

[32:33] teach them a lesson

[32:35] or hold the whole town together all by

[32:37] themselves

[32:40] this is not exactly what people want

[32:42] many young hollywood writers

[32:44] rather than confronting their fathers in

[32:46] kansas take revenge

[32:48] on the remote father by making all adult

[32:50] men look like fools

[32:52] they attack the respect for masculine

[32:54] integrity that every father

[32:56] underneath wants to pass on to his

[32:58] grandchildren and great-grandchildren

[33:01] by contrast in traditional cultures the

[33:04] older men

[33:04] and the older women often are the first

[33:06] to speak in public gatherings

[33:08] younger men may say nothing but still

[33:10] aim to maintain contact with the older

[33:12] men

[33:13] now we have 27 year olds engaged in

[33:16] hostile takeovers

[33:18] who will buy out a publishing house and

[33:20] dismantle in six months

[33:21] what an older man has created over a

[33:23] period of 30 years

[33:26] jung said that when the son is

[33:28] introduced primarily

[33:29] by the mother to feeling he will learn

[33:32] the female attitude towards masculinity

[33:35] and he will take a female view of his

[33:37] own father and of his own masculinity

[33:40] he will see the father through the

[33:42] mother's eyes

[33:45] a friend of mine mentioned that he

[33:47] realized when he became about 35

[33:50] that he didn't really know his father

[33:53] his father had been living in seattle

[33:55] for 10 years or so so he flew to seattle

[33:58] one day

[33:59] went to his father's house knocked on

[34:01] the door

[34:02] and when his father came said to him i

[34:05] want you to know

[34:06] that i don't accept my mother's view of

[34:09] you anymore

[34:11] i said to him what did the father do he

[34:14] said well

[34:15] my father burst into tears and then said

[34:19] now i can die

[34:22] since the father and the mother are in

[34:24] competition for the affection of the son

[34:27] you're not going to get a straight

[34:28] picture of your father out of your

[34:29] mother

[34:30] nor will you get a straight picture of

[34:32] your mother out of your father

[34:35] some mothers send out messages that

[34:37] civilization

[34:38] and culture and feeling and

[34:39] relationships are things which the

[34:42] mother and the daughter

[34:43] or the mother and the sensitive son

[34:45] share in common

[34:46] whereas the father stands for and

[34:48] embodies what is stiff maybe brutal

[34:51] what is unfeeling obsessed rationalistic

[34:54] money mad uncompassionate so the son

[34:57] often goes up with the wounded image of

[34:58] his father

[34:59] not brought about necessarily by the

[35:01] father's actions or words

[35:03] but based on the mother's observation of

[35:05] these words or actions

[35:06] i am not saying that all fathers are

[35:08] good mothers can be right about the

[35:10] father's negative side

[35:11] but the woman can also be judgmental

[35:14] about masculine traits that are merely

[35:16] different or unexpected

[35:19] eventually a man needs to throw off all

[35:21] indoctrination and begin to discover for

[35:24] himself

[35:24] what the father is and what masculinity

[35:26] is for that task

[35:28] ancient stories are a good help because

[35:31] they are free of modern psychological

[35:33] prejudices

[35:34] because they have endured the scrutiny

[35:35] of generations of women and men

[35:37] and because they give both the light and

[35:40] dark sides of manhood

[35:41] the admirable and the dangerous

[35:45] these powerful energies inside men are

[35:48] lying like iron john

[35:49] in pawns we haven't walked past yet

[35:52] it is good that the divine is associated

[35:55] with the virgin mary

[35:56] and the blissful jesus but we can sense

[35:59] how different it would be for young men

[36:01] if we lived in a culture where the

[36:03] divine was also associated

[36:05] with the being entirely underwater

[36:08] covered with hair

[36:10] when a man gets in touch with a wild man

[36:13] a true strength may be added

[36:15] he's able to shout and say what he wants

[36:17] to say

[36:18] in a way that the 60s or 70s man is not

[36:21] able to

[36:23] the ability of a man to shout and to be

[36:24] fierce does not imply domination

[36:27] treating people as if they were objects

[36:28] demanding land or empire holding on to

[36:30] the cold war the whole model of machismo

[36:33] women in the 1970s needed to develop

[36:36] what is known in the indian tradition

[36:38] as kali energy the ability to say what

[36:40] they want

[36:41] to dance with skulls around their neck

[36:42] to cut relationships when they need to

[36:45] men need to make a parallel connection

[36:47] with the harsh dionysius energy that the

[36:50] indians call

[36:51] kala our story says that the first step

[36:54] is to find the wild man lying at the

[36:56] bottom of the pond

[36:58] we could ask why not stop here we have a

[37:01] young man who has stolen the key from

[37:03] under his mother's pillow

[37:04] he has escaped from mother and father

[37:06] and he is in touch with the wild man

[37:08] and through him the wilderness like huck

[37:11] finn he has started quote down the

[37:13] mississippi on quote

[37:14] on a raft with a companion from a

[37:16] different world

[37:18] but if our story describes initiation we

[37:20] know we have still to deal

[37:22] with some sort of wound the breaking of

[37:25] a bone

[37:26] a puncture to the skin a making of wound

[37:28] patterns in the body that's all part of

[37:30] it

[37:31] mirchia eliadi in his reports of

[37:33] initiation experiences

[37:35] in dozens of cultures all over the world

[37:37] mentions that the initiation of boys

[37:39] begins with two events

[37:40] the first is a clean break with the

[37:42] parents after which the novice goes to

[37:44] the forest

[37:45] desert or wilderness the second is a

[37:47] wound

[37:48] that the older men give the boy which

[37:50] could be a scarring of the skin

[37:52] a cut with a knife a brushing with

[37:54] nettles a tooth knocked out

[37:56] but we mustn't leave to the assumption

[37:57] that the injuries are given sadistically

[38:00] initiators of young men in most cultures

[38:02] make sure

[38:03] that the injuries they give do not lead

[38:05] to meaningless pain

[38:06] but reverberate out from a rich center

[38:09] of meaning

[38:10] early adolescence is the time

[38:12] traditionally chosen for initiation to

[38:14] begin

[38:15] and we all recall how many injuries we

[38:17] received at that age

[38:18] something in the adolescent male wants

[38:20] risk courts danger goes out to the edge

[38:23] even to the edge of death in our story

[38:26] then the boy's finger

[38:28] hints of wounds each of us have already

[38:30] received

[38:31] in our attempts to let the wild man out

[38:33] of the cage

[38:34] old men don't give us the wound we do it

[38:37] ourselves

[38:38] whether the old man of the past scars

[38:40] with the seashell or tattoo us painfully

[38:42] or we do it ourselves the scar stands

[38:45] for a wound

[38:46] that's already there some missing tooth

[38:49] that we've each felt with our tongues

[38:51] the wounded finger in our story stands

[38:54] for wound

[38:54] most young men in our culture have

[38:56] already received

[38:59] let's go back then to the story

[39:01] [Music]

[39:05] we are leaving our time now

[39:10] there are places where time moves more

[39:12] slowly than here

[39:17] we honor all four directions east west

[39:22] north south

[39:25] and we also under the fifth direction

[39:27] the vertical one

[39:29] which is in us here today

[39:35] when the wild man had reached the dark

[39:37] forest once more

[39:38] he took the boy from his shoulders put

[39:41] him down in the earth and said

[39:43] you will never see your mother and

[39:44] father again but i will keep you with me

[39:47] for you have set me free and i feel

[39:50] compassion for you

[39:52] if you do everything as i tell you all

[39:54] will go well

[39:56] i have much gold and treasure more than

[39:58] anyone else

[40:00] in the world

[40:04] the wild man prepared a bed of moss for

[40:06] the boy to sleep on

[40:07] and in the morning and took him to a

[40:09] spring do you see this golden spring

[40:12] it is clear as crystal and full of light

[40:14] i want you to sit beside it and make

[40:17] sure that nothing falls into it

[40:19] because if that happens it will wrong

[40:21] the spring

[40:22] i'll return each evening to see if

[40:24] you've obeyed my order

[40:26] the boy sat down at the spring's edge

[40:28] occasionally

[40:29] he glimpsed a golden fish or a gold

[40:31] snake

[40:32] and he took care to let nothing fall in

[40:35] but as he sat there

[40:36] his wounded finger was so painful

[40:40] that without intending to he dipped it

[40:42] into the water

[40:43] he pulled it out instantly but he saw

[40:45] that the finger turned to gold

[40:47] and no matter how much he washed it the

[40:49] washing did no good

[40:51] ion john came back that evening and said

[40:54] anything happened with this spring today

[40:56] the boy held his finger behind his back

[40:58] to keep iron john from seeing it and he

[41:00] said

[41:00] no nothing at all ah you've dipped your

[41:04] finger in the spring said the wild man

[41:07] we can let it pass this once but don't

[41:09] let that happen

[41:10] again now

[41:13] if we are to live in this story rather

[41:16] than merely observe it

[41:17] we have to ask ourselves what wound do

[41:20] we have

[41:21] that hurts so much that we have to dip

[41:23] it in the water

[41:25] initiation then for young men amounts to

[41:28] helping them remember the wound

[41:30] and by that we mean the soul wounds or

[41:33] the injuries to the emotional body

[41:35] sometimes the outward scars exist to

[41:37] remind us of inward scars

[41:40] some blow usually comes from the father

[41:43] one way or another

[41:44] not receiving any blessing from your

[41:46] father is an injury

[41:48] not seeing your father when you are

[41:50] small never being with him

[41:52] having a remote father an absent father

[41:54] a workaholic father

[41:56] is an injury michael mead found an

[41:59] african story

[42:00] in which the hunter father takes his boy

[42:02] hunting with him one day

[42:03] having killed a small rat he asked the

[42:05] boy to keep it

[42:07] the son in the story says thinking it

[42:10] was nothing

[42:10] threw it in a bush no more game comes

[42:14] along that day in the dust the father

[42:15] asked the boy

[42:16] for the rats so they can cook it and

[42:17] have something to eat the boy says to

[42:20] the father

[42:21] i threw it in the bush then according to

[42:24] the story

[42:25] quote the father took up his axe and hid

[42:26] his son who was knocked unconscious

[42:28] and the father then left the boy lying

[42:30] where he was

[42:33] men who hear this incident know in the

[42:35] most astonishing detail where that axe

[42:37] blow hit

[42:38] one man says the axe hit on the left

[42:40] side of his head

[42:41] another said it landed in a chest area

[42:44] another in my groin and so on and so on

[42:46] almost every man remembers that blow

[42:48] coming in

[42:50] so this event seems to be a part of

[42:52] father-son material

[42:54] the father gives a blow and the son gets

[42:56] it and it's a wound the boy remembers

[42:58] for years

[43:00] and what of the blows from the mother oh

[43:02] you're very fail you know you shouldn't

[43:04] play with those boys

[43:05] if you don't stop that i'll send you to

[43:07] a foster home see how you like that

[43:10] now you're acting just like your father

[43:13] the father gives his son a vivid and

[43:15] unforgettable blow with an axe

[43:16] which has the hint of murder in it many

[43:19] a mother makes sure the son

[43:20] receives the baptism of shame she keeps

[43:23] pouring the water of shame over his head

[43:25] to make sure

[43:27] these wounds come into us whether we

[43:29] honor our parents or not

[43:31] whether we are good or bad many of them

[43:34] we can describe

[43:35] as wounds to our grandiosity

[43:38] when we are tiny we have the feeling

[43:40] that we are god

[43:42] our kingly life in the womb pointed to

[43:44] some such possibility

[43:46] and if anyone once we're out tries to

[43:48] tell us we are not god

[43:50] we don't hear it this early sense of our

[43:53] godliness we could call

[43:55] infantile grandiosity and we need to

[43:57] distinguish that from greatness

[43:59] or true grandiosity or grandeur which is

[44:02] a part of us also

[44:04] at any rate as adolescents we still have

[44:07] enough

[44:07] infantile grandiosity so we imagine we

[44:10] can decide whether the rat is big enough

[44:12] to keep or not

[44:13] then when the father hits us with an axe

[44:16] and leaves us lying in the ground

[44:18] we find our condition wounded on the

[44:20] ground

[44:21] difficult to reconcile with our fantasy

[44:24] of princehood we usually solve the

[44:27] problem by inflating ourselves further

[44:29] a little ascension takes us above it all

[44:33] perhaps some grandiosity or godlikeness

[44:35] is useful in protecting ourselves when

[44:37] we are very young

[44:38] alice miller remarks that when abuse

[44:41] enters

[44:42] when the parents do cruelties the child

[44:44] cannot imagine any parent doing

[44:46] it takes either a grandiose road or

[44:48] depressed rune

[44:50] if we take the grandiose road we climb

[44:52] up above the wound

[44:53] and above the shame perhaps we do get

[44:56] good grades

[44:57] become the one in the family hired to be

[44:59] cheerful become a sort of doctor of our

[45:01] own suffering

[45:02] take care of others something prodigious

[45:04] carries us away

[45:05] we can be cheerful but not very human

[45:08] if we take the depressed road we live

[45:11] inside the wound and inside the shame

[45:14] we are actually closer to the wound than

[45:16] those on the grandiose path

[45:18] but we are not necessarily more human

[45:21] the victim

[45:22] is an imposing person too the victim

[45:25] accepts the crown of victimhood becomes

[45:27] a prince and princess in another way

[45:29] sometimes men with no fathers take these

[45:45] roads

[49:00] you

Robert Bly
ArtistRobert Bly

Robert Bly (1926–2021) was an American poet, translator, and editor whose work in mid-century literature and the mythopoetic men's movement shaped both poetry and social thought. H…

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Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

The soft male emerged in the 1970s-80s as men began welcoming their feminine consciousness and developing receptivity. While these men are gentle and non-harmful, Bly observes they lack vital energy and struggle in relationships and work—they are 'life-preserving but not exactly life-giving.' Receptivity alone cannot sustain adult life; something fierce and grounded is also required.
Old stories carry knowledge filtered through generations and stored outside instinct—unlike birds, which carry instinctual blueprints, humans must learn through stories. Myths teach specific lessons: Zeus stories reveal leadership energy exists in men, King Arthur tales show the value of male mentorship, and initiation stories demonstrate the necessity of leaving parental expectations and finding a 'second father.'
The savage is wounded but refuses to examine his wound, inflicting damage on others and the earth. The wild man has examined his wound and resembles a zen priest or shaman—he possesses instinctual knowledge and fierce presence but tempered by reflection, discipline, and compassion. Wildness is not domination; it is grounded, aware power.
While welcoming feminine consciousness is valuable, it alone leaves men depleted and unable to access the fierce presence required in relationships and life. Initiation—requiring separation from the mother, encounter with an older male mentor, and integration of one's wound—offers a deeper masculine consciousness that combines both receptivity and grounded strength.
Many boys lack fathers (through absence, death, divorce, or work culture) and remain psychologically bound to maternal guidance and expectations. Without an older man to initiate them into the father's realm, boys cannot fully mature; they become soft males who know how to please but lack access to the fierce, grounded presence adult life demands.
No. Bly explicitly states his work does not seek to turn men against women or return to patriarchal domination. He supports the women's movement and notes the two movements 'are related to each other but each moves on a separate timetable.' The goal is to help men access their own depth and fierceness in service of the whole, not to reclaim power over women.

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