Transcript
[0:08] Welcome to be there now firsthand
[0:11] accounts of being with Nim Karoli Baba
[0:14] Maharaji. I'm Anastasia and thank you
[0:18] [music] for joining us.
[0:28] This is our first full episode of the Be
[0:30] There Now podcast and it seems
[0:33] appropriate to share a little bit of my
[0:35] own story. So my dear Guru Bahan Parvati
[0:40] agreed [music] to interview me. I hope
[0:43] that you enjoy this story.
[0:46] >> All right. Well, why don't we start by
[0:48] asking you how did you get to Maraji?
[0:53] Oh well, I went overland.
[0:56] >> What prompted the journey?
[0:57] >> What prompted the journey? Well, I had
[1:00] always I'd wanted to go to India since I
[1:02] was 10 years old. My mom had a book on
[1:06] yoga by Indra Devi
[1:09] who was I think it was like she was the
[1:11] first person who wrote a book on yoga
[1:13] and for yoga for the stars or whatever.
[1:16] Anyways, I read the book at 10 years old
[1:19] and I was particularly impressed with
[1:22] the introduction to her book where she
[1:25] talked about how she got to India on a
[1:28] boat and and there was someone sick on
[1:31] the boat and some yogi healed them and
[1:34] anyways I thought it was you know all
[1:36] very amazing and I wanted to go there.
[1:39] So I always intended to go since I was
[1:42] 10. I was literally ready to go when I
[1:44] was 10 years old, but I knew that they
[1:47] would send me back. That's what was that
[1:50] was in my mind. They'll send me back if
[1:52] they catch me, you know. And then I went
[1:55] to McGill. And it was when I was in
[1:58] McGill, I didn't want to finish McGill.
[2:01] I left after the first semester and a
[2:05] half and I just wanted to travel and I
[2:09] wanted to go to India. So that was when
[2:11] I went. I wasn't going to see Maharaji.
[2:16] I had heard one interview by Ramdas on
[2:19] the radio where he talked about Maharaji
[2:24] and in it he said that it was an
[2:27] impossible to meet him because he was up
[2:31] in the Himalayan. So it was never in my
[2:33] mind that I would meet Maharaji.
[2:36] But I should say that when I was
[2:40] listening to this interview, I kind of
[2:42] half fell asleep and in this half
[2:45] dreamed state suddenly I had this like
[2:49] bliss experience
[2:51] which I don't get those kinds of
[2:53] experiences but I had that experience
[2:57] and then I had an unhappy
[3:00] relationship that ended and I was going
[3:03] to travel to Europe with my friend and
[3:06] the night before we left she bowed out.
[3:09] So I just got on the plane and went to
[3:12] England and then I continued
[3:15] overland. I visited my family in
[3:18] England. Then I continued hitchhiking
[3:21] and through Europe and then taking
[3:25] trains through um
[3:27] >> by yourself.
[3:29] >> Yeah. But I would always meet people.
[3:33] But I was, you know, different for
[3:35] different legs of the journey. You know,
[3:37] when I was in Europe, when I was in
[3:39] Greece, I met some other people on Cree
[3:42] that were thinking of going to India. So
[3:46] then maybe four or five of us got on a
[3:49] train that went to Istanbul.
[3:52] And then we got off the train and got on
[3:55] one of the buses that people hired from
[3:58] from Europe to take them all the way to
[4:00] India. We found at the edge of Turkey
[4:03] and Iran, a bus stopped there and had
[4:07] some space. So, we got on and I took the
[4:10] bus across Iran. And then when it got to
[4:13] Afghanistan, I decided to get off the
[4:16] bus and stay in Afghanistan. So I stayed
[4:19] there for a month and a half cuz I liked
[4:21] it. And then the winter was about to
[4:25] come. So once the Kyber Pass closes,
[4:29] you're stuck in Afghanistan for months
[4:32] in those days. So I decided to cross the
[4:36] Kyber Pass and go to India. It was just
[4:40] before Christmas.
[4:42] >> So then I went to Delhi and got on a
[4:46] train and went down to Goa. you know,
[4:48] these people that I'd met in Greece that
[4:50] was kind of like, "Okay, we'll see you
[4:51] in Goa kind of thing." So went down to
[4:55] Goa where I heard about the Kumba,
[4:59] went up to the Kumba,
[5:02] was offered initiation by a yogi named
[5:06] Ram Charas who was a he was probably in
[5:09] his 70s or 80s then. He was a disciple
[5:13] of Deory Babas.
[5:15] >> Mhm. So I took initiation with him but I
[5:18] didn't know what I was doing. I didn't
[5:20] know what it meant. He offered do I want
[5:22] a mantra? I said yes. Okay.
[5:26] >> And then I went and stayed in Bonaris
[5:29] for a little while. I mean there's
[5:31] little more to this story but I went and
[5:33] stayed in Bernaris for a while and then
[5:36] I was going to meet my friend that had
[5:38] reneged on the journey. I was going to
[5:40] meet her but I needed to get my mail in
[5:42] Bombay. In those days, you didn't you
[5:45] couldn't get mail anywhere. There was
[5:47] like mailing addresses or anything. So,
[5:50] I had to go down to the Canadian
[5:52] consulate in Bombay. I went down with
[5:56] some people I had met in Banares who
[5:59] were going to a Goinka course there.
[6:02] >> There wasn't a Canadian embassy in
[6:03] Delhi.
[6:04] >> We weren't in Delhi. We were in
[6:05] Bernaris.
[6:06] >> Yeah. Which is up north. You went all
[6:08] the way down south.
[6:09] >> But that's where my mail was getting
[6:12] sent. I guess because I had been in Goa.
[6:15] I don't know. I can't remember how those
[6:17] things work. [snorts] So when I got
[6:20] there, she had telegram that she
[6:22] couldn't come because she wrecked her
[6:25] mom's car. So there I was in Bombay. I
[6:28] didn't have any money by that point. Um
[6:31] actually I hadn't had any money for
[6:33] quite a while but [laughter]
[6:36] I I was working for some Indian econ
[6:40] students as kind of uh cleaning their
[6:44] house making tea whatever and they were
[6:47] giving me pocket money. They were very
[6:48] nice to me and they thought I was very
[6:50] funny that I had just been with all
[6:52] these sados and they were calling me
[6:55] sadi and you know but they were very
[6:58] nice people. Actually, one of them went
[7:00] on to marry Sitta.
[7:01] >> Oh,
[7:02] >> Giant.
[7:03] >> All right.
[7:05] >> Giant had not met Sitta at that point.
[7:08] >> Right. That's funny.
[7:09] >> No. But then I went down and I ended up
[7:12] in this Goinka course because it was
[7:14] cheaper than the hotel cuz I had no
[7:16] money. And then I really liked this
[7:19] Vipasa meditation. I really took to it.
[7:21] I wasn't going to even do it. I was just
[7:23] thinking, well, this is I can just be
[7:25] quiet. People don't have to notice me.
[7:28] I'll just kind of keep to myself.
[7:32] And that's where I met Danny
[7:35] and also I did a second course and
[7:38] that's where I met Mirabay. She came for
[7:40] the second course. Oh, and then Krishna
[7:43] too. He came down at the end. Krishna
[7:47] had gone on Yatra with Ramdas and Ramsh
[7:51] and Dwara. They had gone on yatra with
[7:55] mktananda and they had just come back
[7:58] from the yatra and so he came to Bombay
[8:01] and he was going to go up to
[8:03] Mktanandanda's ashram. So after that
[8:06] second retreat I went up to Ganeshpuri
[8:11] where Mktanandanda's ashram was met
[8:14] Mktananda
[8:16] and then I was going up to Bo Paul to
[8:19] meet my guruh
[8:22] meet up there with him you know but
[8:24] since there's no way to get in touch
[8:25] with anybody I got up there and he
[8:29] wasn't there he was off in the villages
[8:32] helping the villagers with their harvest
[8:36] But in the meantime, Danny and
[8:40] Krishnadas, they all met up with Ramdas
[8:43] and they went to Bindavan.
[8:46] And that was when Maharaji was telling
[8:49] them, you know, if you want to be a good
[8:52] yogi, no women are gold. And
[8:56] Danny said, well, what about I met a
[9:01] girl in Bombay? And Maharaji said,
[9:04] "Well, do you have a picture of her?"
[9:07] And he said, "Yes." And he said, "Well,
[9:09] show me." And he showed him the picture.
[9:13] And Maraji said, "Well, where is she?"
[9:16] And he said, "She's in Bal with her
[9:18] guru." And Maharaji looked at it and
[9:20] then he gave it back to him and didn't
[9:23] say anything. So the next day apparently
[9:27] he asked him to see the picture again
[9:29] and he said she's in Bo Paul but she's
[9:32] not with her guru and she loves you very
[9:35] much and she loves you in the proper
[9:38] way. She loves you like Sitha loves Ram
[9:41] and you'll marry her. [laughter]
[9:45] So I left Bal after a few days. I stayed
[9:48] with some of the disciples there and
[9:52] then I went up to Delhi and I had
[9:56] arranged to meet up with Danny there and
[9:58] I met him and I met Ramdas there for the
[10:01] first time and Danny told me this story
[10:04] about what Maharaji had said that they
[10:06] had met up with Maharaji and he'd said
[10:08] this and I was like well I want to meet
[10:10] this person who's saying these things
[10:13] about me you know and
[10:17] we were staying in the Palace Heights
[10:19] Hotel. Randas was there and Rondas had a
[10:23] little VW bus and he was going to drive
[10:25] up to see Maharaji and Kenchi. So I
[10:30] asked if I could come with them and
[10:33] Randas said no. I was like okay well
[10:37] I'll take the bus. I'll take the regular
[10:39] bus then you know.
[10:41] But then when I had said that, I guess
[10:45] he relented and he said, "Okay, she can
[10:48] come with us in the bus." So I went up
[10:50] with him and Danny and Romesh and Joe
[10:56] Varka. We stayed at the Evelyn Hotel and
[10:59] then I think the next day we went and
[11:01] saw Maharaji and that was the first time
[11:04] I met him. So that was basically how I
[11:06] got to him.
[11:08] >> Right. I when I was down in um at Saib
[11:11] Babas when I first got to India because
[11:14] like it was the time of year you didn't
[11:15] know where Maharaji was right and I
[11:18] heard about Ramdas being up in Kosani
[11:21] and I wrote a letter saying can I come
[11:23] and he wrote back going no no women.
[11:26] [laughter]
[11:29] >> Yeah. Yeah. So I was the only
[11:33] woman westerner there for a while.
[11:37] What's your first Daran like? My first
[11:39] Dan honest to be honest I don't remember
[11:43] a lot about it except that I thought
[11:46] that oh he's so nice he's so
[11:50] >> yeah [gasps and laughter] he was very
[11:52] bright like very alive and bright and he
[11:57] was really kind to me super kind which I
[12:01] think annoyed Ramdas I [laughter] mean
[12:05] this wasn't the blanket time
[12:08] >> no No, it was not. The the blanket came
[12:13] days, maybe a week later. He somehow had
[12:16] to get the blanket. I don't know exactly
[12:17] where the blanket was being stored. That
[12:20] was the thing. Maharaji treated me so
[12:24] nicely. He was so differential in a way
[12:27] to women. Yeah. It's interesting in my
[12:30] journal. I didn't start it until maybe a
[12:34] I'd been there like a month or
[12:36] something.
[12:37] >> Mhm. So there was all these really
[12:41] important darons that I'd had that I did
[12:44] not write down, but I remember really
[12:46] well. They're very
[12:47] >> Which ones? Tell me.
[12:49] >> Well, like the blanket.
[12:51] [laughter]
[12:52] When I first was up there and I was
[12:55] sitting a lot in Nani call, we were
[12:57] staying in the hotel and I would be
[12:58] sitting every morning, every evening at
[13:00] least an hour and a lot of what I was
[13:06] thinking about was I was confused.
[13:09] >> These were thoughts that were coming up.
[13:11] I mean, I was 19. I was there on my
[13:14] birthday in April and when I turned 20
[13:19] cuz I remember I had a we took a picture
[13:21] of me on the wall outside the ashram in
[13:25] Kenchi on birthday
[13:27] >> but it was very confusing to me because
[13:29] I was like what is my sadena you know I
[13:34] took this dickshell with this yogi and
[13:37] he was lovely he was wonderful and I had
[13:39] met Deora Baba who was also really nice
[13:42] to me and I I was doing vipasna which I
[13:46] thought was an a really powerful
[13:49] practice that I had you know experienced
[13:53] like deep meditative experiences with.
[13:57] But then I was with Maraji and I just
[13:59] loved by that time I was had fallen in
[14:02] love with I mean I had fallen into that
[14:06] space into that devotional space that
[14:09] was you know that so many people did and
[14:12] I was just confused about my practice.
[14:16] So actually before that
[14:19] before there were several darians but
[14:21] the one with the blanket was we were
[14:23] sitting in the room opposite where he
[14:26] usually sat outside in his on his tucket
[14:30] and Ramdas had brought this blanket that
[14:33] he had brought all the way from
[14:35] Australia. It was the most beautiful
[14:36] blanket he could find and because
[14:39] Maharaji only ever wore blankets and he
[14:42] you know carried it around the world and
[14:44] had it stored places and he was sitting
[14:48] down near Maharaj's feet at the end of
[14:53] the tucket and then there were several
[14:55] people and I was at the opposite end up
[14:57] near the wall away from the door and
[15:01] Ramdas
[15:03] gave him this blanket it and Maharaji
[15:07] picked it up and he moved it over and he
[15:11] handed it to me and I thought he meant
[15:14] to hand it to me to like put under his
[15:16] tucket or put away or something, you
[15:18] know. So I just kind of put it down
[15:20] under the tucket and uh Maharaji looked
[15:23] at me and he said, "No, this is for you.
[15:28] This is and like KK [snorts] through KK
[15:30] his translator said Maharaji said this
[15:33] this is gift is for you and I was like
[15:38] flabbergasted and I I didn't know what
[15:41] to say and I just looked over at Ramdas
[15:44] and [snorts]
[15:45] and then Maharaji saw me looking at
[15:48] Ramdas and he looked over at Ramdas and
[15:50] he said is is that okay?
[15:54] [laughter]
[15:55] And I give her this blanket.
[15:59] And uh
[16:02] Randas kind of laughed and he he
[16:04] chuckled and he said, "Oh, it's
[16:06] perfect." [snorts] And Maharaji said,
[16:08] "No, this is a gift for you. You you
[16:10] keep it." I was like, "It's perfect."
[16:13] With steam rising out of his head.
[16:15] >> Yeah. Perfect. Well, I think he meant it
[16:17] was perfect because it was facing him
[16:20] with a lot of his attachments to the
[16:23] blanket and and aversions to me being a
[16:27] woman there and
[16:29] >> all of that and he was he was it was a
[16:31] challenge that he was having to deal
[16:33] with, right?
[16:34] >> But me, I didn't want the blanket
[16:37] necessarily, you know, I had no desire
[16:41] for a blanket.
[16:43] >> [sighs and gasps]
[16:44] >> So that was one really memorable daron.
[16:49] And and then of course actually right
[16:51] before Randas passed away, I went to see
[16:55] him and spent a week with him in Hawaii
[16:58] and we talked about it. But before I
[17:02] went, I uh cut cuz I, you know, it's not
[17:07] like I used the blanket. I I kept it
[17:10] stored away safely, you know, and I had
[17:14] cut a few little pieces and framed them
[17:17] and or put them in lockets for, you
[17:20] know, family members and things like
[17:21] that. But before I went, I cut two big
[17:25] pieces like about six by 6 in or
[17:29] something. One for Ramdas and one for
[17:32] his caretakers. And I gave them to him.
[17:35] And then when I got there, it turned out
[17:36] that Randas at all his retreats were
[17:40] tying little pieces of Maharaji's
[17:42] blankets around their malas and he had
[17:44] run out.
[17:46] He'd run out of Maharaji's blankets. So
[17:50] [laughter]
[17:52] he thought it was like great timing, you
[17:54] know, [laughter]
[17:56] that he it came back to him. But also he
[17:59] told me that he had no idea what you
[18:01] know he had imagined that my kids were
[18:04] wrapped up in it and that they were
[18:06] playing with it and it was all I was
[18:09] like no that's not what happened and
[18:12] also I never actually heard him tell the
[18:16] story his version of the story of the
[18:18] blanket cuz I didn't usually go to his
[18:21] retreats right and after that I went to
[18:24] his retreats with Hanama and my son and
[18:28] his wife and their two children and
[18:31] Randos didn't tell that story. He
[18:35] usually tells that story and then gives
[18:37] up the blanket and he didn't tell that
[18:39] story and at the end of the retreat I
[18:41] said Ramdas why didn't I was waiting for
[18:43] the story
[18:44] and said I thought it was best not to
[18:46] tell it
[18:48] >> is part of the retreat
[18:50] >> apparently he did I I heard from other
[18:53] people but when he told the story he
[18:56] never used my name
[18:58] >> he always said Danny's girlfriend
[19:03] and so I was sort of waiting for him. I
[19:06] thought he would tell the story and then
[19:08] just use my name, you know. But anyways,
[19:12] that's not what happened.
[19:15] [laughter]
[19:19] Another really memorable daron that I
[19:22] didn't write down was I was having, you
[19:26] know, meditating all the time thinking
[19:28] what am I doing? These were thoughts
[19:30] that would come up when I wasn't focused
[19:32] on my breath or my sensations. You know,
[19:35] am I doing the right sadna? Should I be
[19:37] doing something else? Am I did I take
[19:40] initiation with this person and it ties
[19:42] me to them for life? What does this all
[19:45] mean? So at the end of one darian in the
[19:49] same place
[19:51] I was in the same room sitting in the
[19:54] same place and Maharaji
[19:58] told everybody to jow
[20:00] and then he said you stay you have a
[20:04] question for me. So Ramdas and the boys
[20:08] all got up to leave and my mind went
[20:12] blank. I was like what what what
[20:14] question? You know it's like being in
[20:16] his presence my mind stops working you
[20:20] know and finally I said am I doing the
[20:24] right soda
[20:26] and he just looked at me he said ta it's
[20:29] like it's fine [laughter] not really
[20:34] and then he turned around and he looked
[20:37] over his shoulder and then he turned
[20:39] back to me and he said do you think that
[20:41] by coming to temples like this it brings
[20:45] you closer to God.
[20:48] And
[20:50] at the moment it was like a zen for
[20:53] me. It just I had all I knew was that I
[20:57] had no idea. It was like I knew nothing
[21:01] and my mind just stopped.
[21:05] It was like my mind stopped and then I
[21:08] just had this incredible energetic
[21:11] heartopening
[21:12] experience and I just started to cry
[21:17] and cry and cry but it wasn't like sad
[21:21] it was like this devotional kind of like
[21:25] you know and
[21:28] Maraji was really funny I was just
[21:32] crying and crying after this like I
[21:34] don't what kind of experience one would
[21:36] call this but whatever and Maharaj said
[21:40] to KK ask her if she's okay so KK said
[21:43] are you okay and I couldn't speak I
[21:46] couldn't speak at all and so he'd wait a
[21:49] while and then he'd asked me again are
[21:53] you okay Maharaji K meanwhile what was
[21:56] interesting about this whole little
[21:58] thing was KK was sitting at the end he
[22:00] knew perfectly well what was going on
[22:02] [laughter] with
[22:04] He wasn't worried about me, you know,
[22:07] and I and it's almost like, you know,
[22:10] Mahaj, it's almost like he would play
[22:12] dumb sometimes cuz you knew that he
[22:14] knew. Anyways, this went on for I don't
[22:17] even know how long. I was like just
[22:20] balling uncontrollably.
[22:22] Finally, Maharaji told KK, "Go and get
[22:26] her some hot milk." So he brought some
[22:29] hot milk back for me and I was finally
[22:32] able to talk and I was like yes and he
[22:37] was like why Maraji wants to know why
[22:39] you're crying and I was like I just I
[22:42] said just a lot of love and he was like
[22:44] oh okay. [laughter]
[22:48] >> Did you ever ask him about what he had
[22:50] said to Danny?
[22:53] What had he said to Danny
[22:55] >> uh before you got there when he had said
[22:57] to Danny, you know, that uh you know,
[22:59] she loves you very much and you're going
[23:01] to marry her?
[23:02] >> No, I never asked him about that. I just
[23:06] wanted to meet the person who said that.
[23:08] It wasn't like I want I wanted to I
[23:11] figured, well, maybe he knew something I
[23:12] didn't know, you know, but who is it
[23:15] that's saying these things kind of. So,
[23:19] no, I never asked him about that. It
[23:22] became not necessary to ask about that.
[23:25] Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]
[23:26] So, when did you start the journal and
[23:28] why?
[23:30] >> Well, the first two words in my journal
[23:32] say after Kosani. Then the first date I
[23:37] have is May 5th, but there were a few
[23:42] pages before that. I didn't even start
[23:44] dating the pages until May 5th.
[23:47] >> That's not that long. You met him in
[23:49] April.
[23:50] Yeah, I met him I think at the beginning
[23:52] of April. So I would say about maybe 3
[23:56] weeks, four weeks.
[23:58] >> Mhm.
[23:58] >> Yeah.
[23:59] >> And you were seeing him every day at
[24:01] that point.
[24:01] >> Uh or was he jowing you guys at that
[24:04] point?
[24:05] >> Well, he hadn't he didn't jow us away.
[24:08] But why does it say after Kosani?
[24:10] >> He must have gone up to Kosani,
[24:12] >> but we hadn't gone up to stay because
[24:15] there was no there was no place to stay
[24:18] then.
[24:20] Yeah, I wished I had written I had
[24:22] started the journal earlier. The reason
[24:24] I started it was because I just wanted
[24:27] to make a note at least of everything
[24:29] that he was saying to me because it
[24:31] seemed like at that point I decided it
[24:34] was all important.
[24:36] >> All right. [laughter]
[24:37] >> Yes.
[24:38] >> And then that I have I would forget.
[24:41] So you were there with him that spring
[24:44] like April, May.
[24:46] >> And we didn't go up to Kosani
[24:50] >> till end of June or July cuz it was the
[24:54] summer time that Ramdas did that thing
[24:56] up there.
[24:57] >> I'm looking through all these dates and
[24:59] pretty much every day through May. I
[25:02] think at the end of May he sent us up
[25:06] and we were up there for 2 or 3 weeks
[25:08] and then we came back June 20th.
[25:11] >> Uhhuh.
[25:12] >> Then we went up again.
[25:14] >> So were there any other Darson in that 6
[25:16] week period that you were first with him
[25:19] that stand out?
[25:20] >> At that point a few more people had
[25:23] started to come.
[25:25] >> Mhm. And I guess in reading the
[25:28] narration, I tried to write down word
[25:30] for word what I remembered him saying.
[25:34] And you know, sometimes
[25:37] it would be, you know, talking about
[25:39] someone wearing a cross or he talk about
[25:42] Jesus, but a lot of times it was just
[25:46] did you have enough to eat? Did you have
[25:49] food? Did you write a letter home?
[25:52] >> Yeah.
[25:53] And there was a few days where he was
[25:54] talking a lot about Harid Das Baba
[25:57] saying that he had two women living with
[25:59] him and asking if people would get the
[26:02] wrong idea and you know and if this was
[26:05] kind of correct behavior for a yogi and
[26:08] [snorts] he asked just making sure
[26:11] people were eating properly. He was so
[26:14] the little things about people's daily
[26:17] lives
[26:18] seemed as important to him as anything
[26:22] else. He really wanted to make sure
[26:23] everyone was taken care of. Like in
[26:26] retrospect reading this, which is pretty
[26:30] amazing. He was really the embodiment of
[26:34] being a service, you know, of
[26:37] >> mother. Yeah.
[26:38] >> And Yeah.
[26:39] >> Yeah. So yeah, there were there were
[26:42] things in there where he would talk
[26:45] about God or talk about Hanaman, but by
[26:50] that time it was just the feeling, the
[26:52] devotion that I had towards him and that
[26:56] pretty much everybody felt. And I think
[26:59] I told you this before. I've never been
[27:02] able to describe it because it's kind of
[27:05] indescribable, but the closest I can get
[27:08] is it was a hole in the middle of the
[27:11] universe, like our physical universe,
[27:15] and it was just like all this love
[27:17] pouring through. Does that sound
[27:19] something like familiar?
[27:21] >> One of those things that Well, to me, I
[27:23] understand completely what you're saying
[27:24] because I experienced it.
[27:27] >> Yes. It's it's like acid, you know, to
[27:29] those who have taken it, no explanation
[27:31] is necessary. To those who haven't, none
[27:33] is possible,
[27:34] >> right? I mean, that's really what it
[27:36] comes down to. I mean, I have tried
[27:39] through these various books, you know,
[27:41] to
[27:42] >> some of that feeling, but basically
[27:44] people talk about what'sable.
[27:47] >> Yeah.
[27:48] >> You know, because so much of it is so
[27:50] beyond words,
[27:52] >> right?
[27:53] >> It's beyond concepts. It's it's the
[27:55] space of the oneness. And how do you
[27:58] describe the oneness? Poets have been
[28:00] doing you know talking around it for
[28:03] yugas.
[28:04] >> Yeah. Yeah. And when when I think about
[28:08] my own experience,
[28:11] the devotional space, I mean it was the
[28:13] whole of it basically. And when it was
[28:18] like a physical field, like force field,
[28:21] >> absolutely. I would get within when we
[28:24] were taking the bus, I would get within
[28:27] like two miles of Kenchi and tears would
[28:31] just start pouring down my face.
[28:34] >> Mhm.
[28:35] >> You know,
[28:36] >> I mean, I was kind of a blubbering idiot
[28:38] the whole time I [laughter] was there.
[28:43] >> Also, I guess the the other thing that
[28:46] now in retrospect, what am I? I'm like
[28:48] 74. And when I reread this journal, I
[28:52] think I must have been really annoying.
[28:55] [laughter]
[28:57] No, really, because truly because um you
[29:01] know, Maharaji would ask me questions
[29:04] and I wouldn't I I didn't want to
[29:07] answer. It was like I know nothing. You
[29:10] know everything kind of thing. He
[29:12] couldn't have a proper conversation with
[29:14] me. [laughter]
[29:16] And Ramdos used to tease me about that.
[29:18] He said you would ask him if you need to
[29:20] go to the bathroom, but later on you did
[29:23] have conversations with him that were
[29:26] important conversations,
[29:29] especially when you got pregnant.
[29:31] All of that. I mean, I remember I was
[29:34] there [laughter]
[29:35] and you know, you and Rada were the only
[29:40] two women that were consistently there
[29:42] when I was there that I remember. I
[29:45] mean, there were other women that came
[29:46] and went, but you were there for most of
[29:51] the time that I was there. And in, you
[29:54] know, we were both named on the same
[29:56] day. I have it in my journal.
[29:58] >> Yeah. September
[30:01] on the 12th.
[30:03] >> All right. He said he called down Rada,
[30:06] then me, Georgian, Susan, and gave us
[30:08] names. I became parodyy. Then Rada and I
[30:11] went to the porch with others. asked
[30:13] Danny and Maya about staying in Kenshi.
[30:15] Asked if I had a desire to stay. Yeah.
[30:18] He said I'd stay alone, lock my door at
[30:21] night, stay with Danny and Maya at the
[30:23] same time. [laughter]
[30:26] >> On September 6, I just say this because
[30:29] this is like this is not about names,
[30:32] but this just sort of it is illustrative
[30:35] of how he was so careful about taking
[30:40] care of people. We had just gotten off
[30:42] the bus from Delhi
[30:44] >> and we went straight to the temple and I
[30:48] think if I didn't write this down but I
[30:51] think I had a UTI at the time [laughter]
[30:54] and I walked as I was walking up to the
[30:57] temple. I said, "Boy, do I ever have to
[31:00] take a leak." And I remember there were
[31:03] a lot of people outside sitting outside.
[31:06] He was sitting kind of near the river
[31:09] not not on the porch you know and we all
[31:13] prrenammed and Maharaji said does
[31:16] somebody have to go to the latrine.
[31:18] [laughter]
[31:22] [laughter]
[31:26] So it was like
[31:27] >> no hiding anything.
[31:29] >> Yeah there's no hiding. No hiding.
[31:33] Danny was like, "Yes, Maya has to go."
[31:36] [laughter]
[31:39] >> How did you get the name Maya? That was
[31:42] from Ramcharandas.
[31:44] >> No, that was even before I met. You know
[31:47] how funny it is when you go to a foreign
[31:49] country and my birth name was Teresa
[31:53] and for some reason they couldn't
[31:55] pronounce that in India. It was just one
[31:57] of these awkward names. Nobody could say
[32:00] Teresa. So there was an Ayurvedic doctor
[32:03] that I knew and he said why don't you
[32:06] take an Indian name call yourself Maya
[32:08] Maya Dasi. So I was actually Maya Dossi
[32:11] for a few weeks and then when Maharaji
[32:15] changed my name he said you're not Maya
[32:18] said you and then he gave me the name
[32:20] Anosuya he said your name is Ansuya from
[32:24] now on you should respond to Anuya
[32:27] and then he asked if we'd ever heard of
[32:28] her and proceeded to tell us about her.
[32:32] >> Famous story we all had to tell that
[32:34] story at some point or another.
[32:35] [laughter]
[32:36] I know he
[32:38] >> the wife of Rishiadri and she had the
[32:40] she was a sati and then he
[32:43] >> he'd say to me do you understand
[32:46] she was [laughter]
[32:52] right so what were some of the big
[32:54] darson that you had later on
[32:57] >> oh well I think I told you about the one
[32:59] where I was pregnant I mean they were
[33:03] all big but in terms of information
[33:06] exchanged
[33:07] >> as I said the ones that are talkable
[33:08] about
[33:09] >> the ones that are talkable and the ones
[33:11] that I've remembered and had to think
[33:15] about a lot was when I got pregnant and
[33:19] you know I was concerned that my
[33:21] pregnancy was going to interfere with my
[33:23] sodna basically and and I went to see
[33:26] Maharaji and I asked him is having this
[33:29] baby going to keep me from God is how I
[33:32] put it and He first he said this was in
[33:37] Bindavvern and at first he said just go
[33:40] have your baby and then come and ask me
[33:44] and then he turned around and he said
[33:47] something in Hindi and the translator it
[33:49] wasn't KK at that time the translator
[33:52] said Maharaji wants to know are you
[33:54] going to love your baby and I said yes
[33:57] of course and then Maharaji like came in
[34:00] and said nay nay that's not what I asked
[34:03] her [laughter] you All
[34:05] right. In Hindi, he said, "Nate, that's
[34:06] not one." And then he repeated his
[34:08] question and the interpreter said, "No,
[34:10] Maharaji wants to know if you're going
[34:11] to be attached to your baby." And I
[34:15] said, "I don't know. I don't know how
[34:19] you know." And Maharaji said, "Nee." He
[34:21] said, "Don't be attached." He said, "Be
[34:24] like a lotus above the water. Don't be
[34:27] attached to your child."
[34:30] So I went back to the what was the name
[34:35] of that bavon we used to stay in in
[34:36] Bindavan.
[34:37] >> Yeah that one.
[34:39] >> That one. I went back there and I
[34:41] thought about it and I thought that is
[34:43] not so easy. How am I going to do that?
[34:46] How am I not going to be attached to my
[34:49] child? So the next day when I went back
[34:52] I said to Maharaji you told me not to be
[34:55] attached to this child but how am I
[34:58] going to do that and he said don't worry
[35:02] he said just have faith and remember God
[35:05] and it will happen.
[35:08] So still waiting right. Yeah. But in the
[35:11] meantime I'm having faith and I'm
[35:13] remembering God. So [laughter] I'm
[35:16] practicing those two things.
[35:20] So yeah,
[35:21] >> the kids and the grandkids and
[35:24] [laughter]
[35:25] >> and the other the other memorable Darson
[35:28] I had before that before I got pregnant
[35:31] cuz I was just 20, right? And I was a
[35:34] skinny little thing. I was a skinny
[35:37] thing and Maharaji had told me earlier
[35:40] on in the spring that I could stay in
[35:42] the couti up the river from him and then
[35:45] he sent me to Kosani. When he first told
[35:48] me I could stay in the couti, he was
[35:50] like, "Can you cook yourself? You know,
[35:53] I'll have food sent up for you." I mean,
[35:55] he was making all these arrangements.
[35:57] And then he told me after Danny and I
[36:00] went to Delhi and we had a heavy makeout
[36:04] session right
[36:05] >> in Delhi and we came back and he called
[36:07] Maharaji called me into the room and he
[36:09] said, "When you and Danny were in Delhi,
[36:11] you decided to get married."
[36:13] And I was like, "No, we didn't." And
[36:16] he'd said, "Yes, you did." And I was
[36:18] like, "No, we didn't, Maraj." And he
[36:21] said, "Yes, you did." And I said, "No,
[36:24] we didn't." And he he put up his finger
[36:27] and he said, "Don't lie to me." I was
[36:30] like, "Okay." You know, so that was
[36:34] after that that he sent us both up to
[36:37] Kosani and to live in a separate place
[36:40] from Randas and the group to live
[36:43] separately. So then at the end of the
[36:46] summer when we came back, he at one
[36:49] point said to me, "Maya's still angry at
[36:53] me because I didn't let her stay in the
[36:57] couti, you know, so you can come and
[37:00] stay." And then I actually had it that
[37:02] he said, "Maya's thinking that I change
[37:05] my mind a lot."
[37:08] So she's thinking I changed my mind a
[37:10] lot, so you can't stay tonight. but than
[37:14] but an X. [laughter] So anyways, we
[37:16] eventually spent a night in the ashram
[37:20] and it was this little room with two
[37:22] little string beds, one on either side
[37:24] of the room and we went to sleep and
[37:27] then I had a dream that I got up out of
[37:29] the bed and went out the back door.
[37:31] There was a front and a back door. The
[37:33] back door was close to the bathrooms and
[37:35] Maraji was standing out there with two
[37:37] or three Indians and he was holding a
[37:39] child in his arms and I thought at the
[37:42] time, well that's unusual. I've never
[37:44] seen him hold a child and um and then he
[37:48] motioned for me to follow him and he
[37:51] walked to the front of the building and
[37:54] in the front door and then something
[37:56] else in the dream happened and I
[37:58] couldn't remember it. It was just gone.
[38:00] But then I woke up from the dream and I
[38:03] sat up and Danny woke up across the room
[38:06] at the same time and I told him about
[38:09] this dream. So we just meditated for an
[38:13] hour or something and then we went back
[38:15] to sleep and early in the morning
[38:17] Maharaji called us down to him and he
[38:19] was sitting on his tucket and there was
[38:21] a man there with a little boy and he
[38:24] said will you take this child and take
[38:27] him to America and we said yes if
[38:30] Maharaji wants us to we will and he said
[38:32] well you educate him and yes we will and
[38:35] so he said he told the man to give us
[38:37] the child and the child started to cry
[38:39] the child was like two or three didn't
[38:41] know who we were you know
[38:42] >> right
[38:43] >> but Mahaji kept asking us will we take
[38:46] it and we said yes if that's what we
[38:47] want and finally he said to the man no
[38:50] no no don't worry you you don't have to
[38:52] go but he kept asking us questions if I
[38:54] give you a child will you will you raise
[38:57] him will you feed him milk do you make
[39:00] enough money to buy milk they have good
[39:02] milk in America how much money do you
[39:05] make there will you raise him to be a
[39:07] scholar will you you know and we're
[39:10] like, "Yes, yes." Okay. So, [snorts]
[39:12] after that day,
[39:15] I mean, truly, my breasts started to
[39:17] grow and I didn't think anything of it
[39:20] cuz I thought, I'm finally growing up.
[39:23] [laughter]
[39:24] I'm, you know, I'm 20. I'm finally
[39:26] getting some boobs, you know, I was so
[39:28] flatchested.
[39:30] And then I think I actually conceived
[39:33] about a week or two later
[39:36] >> in Kosani.
[39:38] We went back to Kosani. So that was kind
[39:40] of a memorable rash.
[39:43] >> Yes.
[39:45] >> And then and then I had you know I had
[39:47] these questions for Maharaji about
[39:49] having a baby but he told me have faith
[39:51] and remember God. So
[39:54] >> that's one.
[39:56] >> When I came back to the west I was 3
[39:59] months pregnant.
[40:01] >> I remember your wedding in Delhi.
[40:04] >> Right. You you came for the the
[40:06] official. We were witnesses. I think
[40:08] >> you were you were witnesses. Yeah. You
[40:10] and
[40:10] >> Mitchell.
[40:11] >> Yes. It's Mitchell, right? I think he
[40:13] was still Mitchell. Yeah.
[40:14] >> Yeah.
[40:15] >> A year later when Maraji passed, I was
[40:22] sitting in the morning, I was
[40:25] meditating.
[40:27] And the whole time I was meditating,
[40:29] everything he ever said to us about
[40:31] death went through my mind. This before
[40:34] I knew he had passed away. When somebody
[40:36] dies, he said, "Why do you cry? Do you
[40:40] cry because you're thinking of the
[40:42] person?" "No, you're crying for
[40:45] yourself." Do you remember him saying
[40:46] that? Were you there?
[40:48] >> I like that, but I remember other
[40:49] things. Yeah.
[40:50] >> Well, a lot of those things that he said
[40:52] about death are not in my journal. So,
[40:55] maybe they were the first few weeks.
[40:57] Many things came to me during that time.
[41:00] And then I got up from my meditation and
[41:04] Lakshmi the phone rang and then she came
[41:06] and she said we just got a telegram.
[41:10] The lord giveth and the lord taketh
[41:14] and maraji's left his body. Did Ramba
[41:18] send that to you or somebody else?
[41:20] >> I don't know.
[41:21] >> Ramdas called us at the farm. We were at
[41:24] the farm at that point and I remember
[41:28] boy.
[41:30] Yeah. Yeah.
[41:32] Oh, you were still at the farm, but we
[41:34] had we had moved already to Cambridge.
[41:37] Yeah.
[41:39] Yeah. I had just had an miscarriage
[41:42] and if I hadn't had the miscarriage, I
[41:45] wouldn't have actually gone to India at
[41:48] that point, you know, when a whole bunch
[41:50] of us went over.
[41:51] >> Right. Right. Yeah.
[41:53] >> So,
[41:53] >> Well, and I couldn't go to India.
[41:56] >> Yeah.
[41:56] >> Because Yeah. I didn't have a passport
[41:58] for my baby.
[42:00] >> Yeah.
[42:00] >> And I couldn't get it together in time.
[42:02] So, we went to Romesh Doss's house on
[42:07] Long Island and did a like a self-
[42:09] retreat for a week.
[42:11] >> And during that retreat, there was one
[42:13] night where I had a dream about
[42:15] Maharaji. I don't dream period. Forget
[42:20] about Maharaji. I don't dream. I mean
[42:22] the I can count on one hand the number
[42:25] of dreams I've had of Maharaji. I know
[42:27] some people have tons of them, but this
[42:29] was a big dream.
[42:30] >> It felt like it went on all night.
[42:35] >> And the whole time in the dream, I was
[42:38] sitting there next to his tucket and he
[42:41] had his blanket on. He was just holding
[42:43] my hand, which was very much like the
[42:44] last time I saw him in Bindavan. But
[42:47] this time he kept putting the blanket
[42:50] over his head and hiding and then kind
[42:54] of coming out again. But it felt like I
[42:57] was just dreaming and dreaming and
[42:59] dreaming of him for the longest time.
[43:02] And that I was just hanging out with
[43:04] him, you know. And at one point I said
[43:06] to him, Maharaji, why are you doing
[43:09] this? Why are you spending so much time
[43:11] with me? And he said, "To give you peace
[43:15] of heart."
[43:18] Oh.
[43:19] Oh. Yeah. That makes me cry. [laughter]
[43:23] >> I know.
[43:27] Oh, yeah.
[43:30] Yeah. That's a good dream. That's a good
[43:34] dream.
[43:35] I know. I don't have dreams of him. I'm
[43:37] always complaining. Maharaji. It's
[43:39] [laughter] like
[43:42] when I did Whisper in the Heart and I
[43:44] was, you know, talking to all these
[43:45] people who had all these dreams of
[43:47] Maharaji. It was like, well, it must be
[43:49] the honeymoon time, you know. [laughter]
[43:54] You just have to live and have faith
[43:56] and remember God.
[43:58] >> That's right.
[44:00] >> Yeah.
[44:02] >> Well, you have enough of your story.
[44:04] >> Yeah. Thank [music] you so much for
[44:06] taking the time
[44:09] and thank you for listening to this
[44:11] podcast. We hope that you join us for
[44:15] our next episode which will be with my
[44:17] dear friend [music] Mirabby Bush.
[44:27] Wow. Wow. Wow.