Transcript
[0:00] Satpal Singh Bhai, welcome to The
[0:02] Ranveer Show. Such an honor having you
[0:04] on the show. I love the message that
[0:06] you're putting out in the world. I love
[0:08] the way you're a modern representation
[0:12] of the spiritual school of Sikhism. And
[0:16] for me this conversation is all about
[0:18] learning much more about Sikhism. For me
[0:20] this conversation is about learning
[0:22] about your journey. And for me this
[0:24] conversation is about just putting some
[0:26] goodness out there for the world to
[0:28] consume. So, welcome to the show, sir.
[0:31] So much for having me, Ranveer. It's a
[0:33] real pleasure. I've been following your
[0:35] content for quite a while and it's so
[0:38] inspirational how you've taken the
[0:41] younger generation on your own spiritual
[0:43] journey and how much you're exposing
[0:45] people to what it means to live a busy
[0:50] modern life but still have that
[0:52] spirituality at your core. So, it's a
[0:55] real honor for me to be on your show as
[0:56] well. I'm I'm I'm really inspired by the
[0:58] work that you do.
[0:59] No, the the admiration, the inspiration,
[1:02] the honor, it's it's all mutual. Trust
[1:04] me.
[1:05] But, you know, you mentioned something
[1:07] specific. You mentioned how it's
[1:08] important to have that spiritual core
[1:10] when you're going about your modern-day
[1:12] life. I feel modern-day life, especially
[1:14] considering where we are as a race of
[1:17] human beings, it's all about speed and
[1:20] pace and power to some degree. You know,
[1:22] you're supposed to kind of run at it
[1:24] with life. Be it your career, be it any
[1:26] kind of growth. Someone once told me
[1:28] that if you do want to run with speed
[1:31] and you do want to help other people,
[1:32] that means there's going to be a loss of
[1:34] energy from you and your mind and your
[1:36] body. And therefore, you need to gain
[1:38] that energy back from somewhere else.
[1:41] Think of it like a petrol pump for your
[1:44] mind and your body and your soul. So,
[1:47] that's how I look at spiritual learnings
[1:50] or even spiritual practices like
[1:51] meditation, like prayer. That's what all
[1:54] this is for me. Somewhere it is a
[1:55] practical selfish kind of intention in
[1:59] my heart.
[2:00] Absolutely. And I think what's really
[2:01] fascinating is bringing spirituality
[2:05] into every aspect of your life. Um
[2:08] I grew up where religion was really just
[2:11] something you did on a Sunday. You went
[2:13] to the Gurdwara, you went to the temple
[2:15] and then Monday to Saturday, you just
[2:18] get on with normal life. There's no part
[2:21] of of the spirituality which feeds into
[2:23] your normal life. That's how I was just
[2:24] brought up.
[2:25] Um where something was just a add-on.
[2:28] Religion was just something that you
[2:29] added on to your life. Whereas as I've
[2:32] grown up, I've begun to realize that
[2:34] actually if you begin to understand that
[2:36] spirituality is really just a mindset,
[2:40] then that mindset needs to be carried
[2:42] through into everything that you do. And
[2:44] more importantly, it's about how you
[2:46] interact with everything. How do you
[2:48] interact with stress? How do you
[2:49] interact with the pressures of your boss
[2:53] giving you too many things to do at
[2:55] work? How do you deal with things in
[2:57] life happening that don't go according
[2:59] to plan or people not acting in the way
[3:00] that you would like them to? All of that
[3:03] is spirituality to me. It's not really
[3:05] something to do with a a different
[3:06] religion or something that you just add
[3:08] on on a Sunday.
[3:10] Yeah, 100%. You know, even speaking
[3:13] about religions, I feel like every
[3:14] single religion in the world basically
[3:16] says the same things and it's probably
[3:18] interpreted differently. But, what every
[3:20] religion says is, you know, be a good
[3:22] person, help out others, help out your
[3:24] community, do the right thing.
[3:27] And while I know that your message is
[3:29] much more spiritual, for me this the
[3:31] selfish angle on this conversation is I
[3:33] want to learn about Sikhism deeper. So,
[3:36] for this conversation, just imagine I'm
[3:38] your younger brother who's just entered
[3:40] this world and teach me about Sikhism,
[3:42] Satpal Bhai. Like I would just love to
[3:45] know what it is for you specifically.
[3:47] You know, be it the stories related to
[3:49] Sikhism, be it what it stands for in the
[3:52] modern-day context. What is it for you?
[3:56] I think Sikhism has something that has
[3:59] massively
[4:01] transformed my own personal life. And
[4:04] everything that I talk about is very
[4:06] much based on something that I've
[4:08] experienced personally and I think
[4:09] that's the beauty of it. I grew up in
[4:12] quite a a normal Punjabi Sikh family
[4:16] and for me
[4:18] religion was something that I never
[4:20] questioned. My parents said that we we
[4:23] belong to this religion. I said, "Fine."
[4:25] You know, there is a God, fine. You
[4:26] know, you just have to learn, you know,
[4:28] go to your Punjabi class on a Sunday so
[4:29] you learn how to read
[4:31] your native language. Fine. I had no
[4:33] problem with all of those things and I
[4:35] never questioned it. I never had
[4:37] an issue with my own personal identity
[4:39] or anything like that.
[4:41] But, as I grew up and I started to learn
[4:45] that there was a really deeply personal
[4:48] aspect to it where it wasn't about just
[4:51] some religious facts that you had to
[4:54] learn and some actions that you had to
[4:57] perform, but it was really something to
[4:59] do with who you are and how you
[5:01] understand yourself. I began to
[5:03] understand it as a psychology and once I
[5:06] understood it as a mindset
[5:09] and once I began to practice meditation
[5:12] in myself, the impact that it had on my
[5:15] life was so huge that
[5:18] I became almost like this excited little
[5:20] kid. Like I had found some buried
[5:23] treasure and I just needed to tell
[5:24] everyone, "Hey,
[5:26] you've all been missing it. There's
[5:27] something amazing right here." So, in my
[5:30] own journey what I realized was
[5:32] 99% of the Sikhs that I knew had no idea
[5:36] of what the spiritual message was really
[5:38] about. They had no idea what their
[5:40] religion was about even though they had
[5:41] been attending all the religious
[5:44] festivities their whole life. And once I
[5:47] understood how it was really about
[5:49] personal transformation,
[5:51] I couldn't help but try and help other
[5:53] people. My whole motivation just became
[5:56] how do I go about and teach people what
[5:59] it means to have some God in your life,
[6:02] which is not some guy out there, but
[6:04] actually a a fundamental aspect of who
[6:06] you are. And I think this is where I was
[6:08] really motivated to go deeper into the
[6:12] philosophy of Sikhism, to go into what
[6:15] Guru Nanak, who is the founder of this
[6:16] tradition, was really talking about and
[6:19] to then figure out a way how does this
[6:21] apply to me and how does this apply to
[6:23] other people? And that's just been my
[6:24] whole motivation.
[6:26] So, what are some of those aspects? What
[6:28] are some of those philosophies? Like,
[6:30] you know, you said that 99% of
[6:32] practicing Sikhs may not know about the
[6:34] spiritual angles of it. Could you shed
[6:36] some light on those spiritual angles?
[6:38] Yeah, absolutely. I think the first
[6:40] thing I realized was this
[6:44] old way of thinking or my my immature
[6:46] way of thinking was that God was some
[6:50] guy out there who you just go to to pray
[6:53] for things. So, God was always an
[6:55] impersonal person being that was out
[6:58] there in the sky. You know, I like to
[7:00] think of it as an old man with a white
[7:01] beard sitting in the clouds. Your
[7:03] typical idea of what a God is. And what
[7:06] I was realizing was
[7:08] most youngsters completely rejected
[7:11] that. By the time you you reach the age
[7:12] of about 13, you know, I've some I've
[7:15] spoken to so many of them and they just
[7:16] they say that I'm an atheist. Because by
[7:18] the age of 13 they said, you know, the
[7:19] God that everyone keeps talking about, I
[7:21] haven't heard about it. It doesn't make
[7:23] any sense to me.
[7:24] And when I began to meditate and
[7:26] understand that
[7:29] there isn't a God out there
[7:32] or more accurately, the God that is out
[7:34] there is also in here. And so, the first
[7:38] message that Guru Nanak brought to the
[7:39] world was this message of oneness. And
[7:42] most Sikhs interpret that as there is
[7:44] one God. There isn't multiple gods,
[7:46] there's one God. But, the reality is
[7:48] oneness is something quite different to
[7:50] to one God. And where I began to
[7:53] understand it was
[7:54] this body mind, this thing that I call
[7:57] me, is actually not me.
[8:00] And as I began to understand,
[8:03] it made me realize that all the things
[8:05] that I call me
[8:07] are nothing to do with me. So, if you
[8:09] just take the example, let's look at
[8:10] this body.
[8:11] Did I make this body? And you say, "No,
[8:14] I didn't make this body. It was just
[8:16] given to me."
[8:17] Did I choose my own name? No, I didn't
[8:20] even choose my own name.
[8:22] Did I choose my religion? No, I didn't.
[8:24] So, what you begin to realize is all the
[8:26] things that you think is me, my
[8:28] identity,
[8:30] I began to realize none of these things
[8:32] are me. And so, it led me on this quest,
[8:33] "Well,
[8:34] is there really a me?" And the teachings
[8:37] of Guru Nanak made me understand that
[8:39] the idea of me
[8:41] is the cause of all my problems. And I
[8:44] was able to to reduce and simplify Guru
[8:48] Nanak's message into really a a message
[8:50] of oneness, which was
[8:52] that we don't know who we are.
[8:55] And who we think we are is making us
[8:57] miserable.
[8:59] And that was the big change in my life.
[9:01] That I think I am me and because I think
[9:04] I am me, it makes my life full of
[9:06] misery. Because there are so many things
[9:08] that come with me. Me then says, "Well,
[9:11] I want this and I want that." So, I have
[9:13] ambition. I have desires. I have
[9:15] frustration that life is not going
[9:17] according to my plan. And once you begin
[9:19] to realize the root cause of all of that
[9:22] is me.
[9:23] This idea that I think I am. Once you're
[9:25] able to let go of something so close to
[9:28] you, which is me, you begin to realize
[9:30] there is no me. All that there is is
[9:32] oneness. And that's quite an
[9:34] uncomfortable thing for most people.
[9:36] Most people are saying, "Well, I'm happy
[9:38] with being me. I don't want to let go of
[9:39] me. I quite like me. I just want to
[9:41] change everybody else. I don't want to
[9:42] change myself."
[9:44] And I realized that the biggest problem
[9:46] in life was really this idea of me. And
[9:49] over time, I just got more and more
[9:50] fascinated by trying to dissolve this
[9:53] idea of me. Letting go, constantly
[9:55] letting go of all these things which
[9:58] attach onto the me, my negative
[10:00] thinking, my self-imposed limiting
[10:04] beliefs, all of these pressures that I
[10:06] have but I think life should be like
[10:08] this and like that. And every time life
[10:10] doesn't turn out that way, I feel
[10:11] depressed, I feel anxious, I feel
[10:13] worried. And so it's not that I've
[10:15] solved all those problems in my life.
[10:18] I'm just able to catch myself now every
[10:20] time that I do that and that's what
[10:21] Sikhism has really taught me that you're
[10:23] able to live a totally different way of
[10:26] life compared to what the media and
[10:29] society and your parents tell you.
[10:31] There's a completely different way of
[10:32] living.
[10:34] Yeah.
[10:35] Um you know, I'd like to kind of
[10:37] bring in a teaching from the Buddha. He
[10:40] said that
[10:42] every
[10:43] kind of sadness arises out of either
[10:45] expectation or ego.
[10:48] And that's pretty much kind of in line
[10:49] with what you're saying. Even
[10:50] expectation comes from a place of ego. I
[10:52] want that thing. But the keyword is I. I
[10:56] want that thing cuz it'll give me
[10:57] happiness. And this is it's kind of a
[10:59] very deep spiritual lesson you've
[11:01] touched upon which you may not even
[11:03] learn in your in the beginning of your
[11:05] own spiritual journey. It takes you some
[11:06] time to understand that.
[11:08] I also feel that this concept of God, I
[11:10] think it's Ik Onkar, the
[11:12] concept you were basically talking
[11:14] about. I'd love to hear what Ik Onkar
[11:16] means to you specifically and when you
[11:18] had that switch when it came to the
[11:19] meaning of Ik Onkar. For me, I feel God
[11:22] is a very personal thing. It's different
[11:25] for everyone. It's subjective for
[11:26] everyone. Someone might visualize
[11:28] something. Someone might think of God in
[11:30] a certain way. What I've come to realize
[11:32] after 6 years of meditation and really
[11:34] opening up spiritually is that I feel
[11:37] there's some sort of an energy or a
[11:38] light inside you. And it's inside
[11:41] everybody. Even the most evil people,
[11:43] even the worst human beings have that
[11:45] energy or light inside them.
[11:47] And the spiritual journey just brings
[11:49] you closer to that light. Think of a
[11:51] road that goes and hits that light. The
[11:54] most spiritual you get, the cleaner that
[11:56] road gets. And that's why the habits of
[11:59] meditation, that's why the habits of
[12:01] treating people better. It cleans up and
[12:03] smooths out that road to finding that
[12:05] light inside you.
[12:06] Do you look at it in a similar way? Or I
[12:09] mean, I'd love to know your subjective
[12:10] opinion on this. Absolutely. For me, how
[12:15] it began was exactly how you're
[12:17] describing it was that God was no longer
[12:20] out there. God was something that was
[12:22] within me.
[12:24] But the more I've studied, the more I've
[12:25] meditated on it, I've begin to realize
[12:28] that
[12:30] God is not just something that's within
[12:32] me. In fact, it's absolutely everything.
[12:35] And the way I try to describe it is
[12:38] it's as though a fish is swimming around
[12:43] and trying to ask all the other fish,
[12:45] "Where's this water that everyone keeps
[12:46] talking about?"
[12:48] And the idea is that this becomes so
[12:51] difficult to see because the fish can't
[12:55] see the water. He's in the water. He's
[12:57] breathing it in. Every time he opens his
[12:59] mouth, the water is there. He's made of
[13:02] water. And it becomes a realization that
[13:06] if you're going searching for God, as
[13:08] soon as you do that, you've lost the
[13:10] plot. You you you you've gone the wrong
[13:11] direction.
[13:13] And the first realization is to
[13:15] understand that every single thing
[13:20] physical and non-physical is God.
[13:23] So this is where if we take these ideas
[13:25] of Sarguna and Nirguna, that which is
[13:28] formless and that which has form,
[13:30] absolutely everything is God. So
[13:33] the idea of oneness now becomes
[13:36] what isn't God?
[13:39] And that becomes a very interesting
[13:40] question because as long as you say God
[13:43] is something inside me,
[13:45] what it allows is for some part of you
[13:48] to be not God. So you can say, "Yeah,
[13:51] God is the good part of me, but I have
[13:53] some bad parts as well."
[13:55] And what you do is you retain your ego.
[13:57] And Guru Nanak's philosophy is all about
[14:00] complete self-destruction
[14:02] to the point at which there is zero part
[14:05] of you that you can call you. This is
[14:07] not my hand. This is not my body. This
[14:10] is not my mind. These are not my
[14:12] thoughts.
[14:14] This is not my past. This is not my
[14:16] family. This is not my future.
[14:19] And that for most people is almost a
[14:22] step too far. But the Gurus
[14:25] and all the spiritual masters of all
[14:27] traditions have basically said, "If you
[14:29] want to know God,
[14:32] you have to completely dissolve in it.
[14:34] It's like you can't keep reading about
[14:37] the ocean
[14:39] and doing lectures on the ocean and
[14:42] um
[14:44] doing exam papers on the ocean, but
[14:45] you've never been there. You've never
[14:46] swam in the ocean. You've never tasted
[14:48] it. You've never felt it.
[14:50] The best way to know the ocean is to go
[14:52] and swim. And you have to dissolve in
[14:53] the ocean and then you begin to really
[14:55] understand what it is. And so this is
[14:57] the best way to understand what God is
[14:59] is God isn't a one thing. In fact,
[15:02] everything is God. And this is where
[15:04] oneness really starts to make sense that
[15:06] it is absolutely everything and
[15:08] everywhere. So I'm So right now it's God
[15:10] talking to God. It's not me talking to
[15:13] you.
[15:14] Does that make sense? Yeah. No, no. I I
[15:16] get I get what you're saying. And when
[15:18] you have that mental switch, it also
[15:20] brings a lot of peace to what you call
[15:22] your mind. Um that's that's one aspect
[15:25] of it.
[15:26] Satpal bhai, from a practical
[15:28] perspective, you know, if if there's
[15:30] someone who's listening to this
[15:31] conversation and is asking themselves
[15:33] that how do I actually begin to view
[15:35] this world that way? How do I begin to
[15:37] unlearn all the things I've been told
[15:39] since I was a child? What's the
[15:41] practical way of going about it? Is
[15:43] there a kind of meditation you do to
[15:46] perceive the world in a certain way? I
[15:48] mean, I strongly believe that we're
[15:49] living inside a simulation and that kind
[15:52] of encompass encompass encompasses a lot
[15:55] of the
[15:56] things that you said right now. That you
[15:57] need to begin viewing the world as a
[15:59] simulation and you're just playing a
[16:01] role. Because if you don't view the
[16:02] world as a simulation, you're again
[16:04] feeding into your ego and your sense of
[16:07] what you've learned till this point in
[16:09] life. But the moment you start looking
[16:11] at people as pieces of yourself, you
[16:13] start treating people better. What you
[16:15] put out there starts returning to you.
[16:17] You start living a much easier, better
[16:19] life. Uh you know, and of course then
[16:22] there's a whole journey you can go on
[16:24] where it's about meditation. It's about
[16:26] habits. It's about things you eat, the
[16:28] kind of exercises you do. That just kind
[16:30] of strengthens that idea of God being
[16:32] all around you. That's what the world of
[16:34] yoga says as well. That you get
[16:36] connected to your body more. You get
[16:38] connected to that inner source of energy
[16:40] more.
[16:40] But
[16:42] what's a practical way of beginning this
[16:44] process of changing your reality?
[16:47] This is a really interesting question.
[16:49] I'll give you the example of if you
[16:51] wanted to make a stool,
[16:54] what's the minimum number of legs that
[16:56] it needs in order for it to be stable?
[16:58] Let's take that example. If you have a
[16:59] stool with just one leg,
[17:02] it's not going to be very stable.
[17:05] You can try and sit on it, but you'll
[17:06] have to be doing a lot of the balancing
[17:08] yourself. You'll use your legs to try
[17:09] and balance it, but the stool won't
[17:10] support you. You add a second leg, it
[17:13] might work. As soon as you add three
[17:15] legs,
[17:16] you can sit on it comfortably and all
[17:19] three legs are supporting you.
[17:21] And Guru Nanak introduces
[17:23] three different things that you need in
[17:26] order to be able to practically
[17:28] experience this.
[17:30] The first is you need to have the
[17:33] wisdom. You need to have access to this
[17:35] wisdom.
[17:37] The second is you need a practice.
[17:39] And the third is you need to spend time
[17:41] with other people who are also
[17:42] practicing this.
[17:44] So we can call that Gyan,
[17:46] the wisdom, Dhyan,
[17:48] the practice,
[17:50] and Sangat, the people, the spiritual
[17:54] people who are in your community. Call
[17:55] it a spiritual community. And he says
[17:57] these are the three things that you
[17:58] need. Now let's let's look at what
[18:00] happens in the world right now where you
[18:03] have yoga, which is a practice that has
[18:06] exploded all over the world.
[18:09] But it's being taught without the Gyan,
[18:12] without the wisdom, without the deep
[18:14] spiritual knowledge. And without that
[18:16] spiritual knowledge, what you end up
[18:18] getting is things like goat yoga, beer
[18:22] yoga, so many ridiculous types of yoga
[18:24] that are out there, so-called yoga.
[18:26] Because they're trying to position yoga
[18:29] in a very secular way that, "Oh well,
[18:31] there's no religious side of it. You
[18:32] It's just good for your body. It's good
[18:34] for your health." And what you're
[18:35] getting is really
[18:37] an insult to what yoga really is, the
[18:39] deep spiritual meaning of what yoga
[18:41] really is. So you can't segregate these
[18:43] three things.
[18:44] In order to start really living it, I
[18:47] always think of this example that if you
[18:49] wanted to be an entrepreneur, one of the
[18:51] things that you would do is you would
[18:52] start studying the best entrepreneurs in
[18:54] the world. You know, you'd start reading
[18:56] the background of Steve Jobs and and
[18:57] Bill Gates and
[18:59] and Musk Elon Musk and people like that.
[19:01] If you wanted to be a really good
[19:02] musician, you start to go and get
[19:05] training from another musician and you
[19:07] spend time with other music
[19:09] practitioners.
[19:11] So what is it that we're trying to do?
[19:12] If you want spiritual wisdom,
[19:14] then you have to spend time with the
[19:16] spiritual masters.
[19:17] And these are the Kabirs, the Farids,
[19:20] the Namdevs, the Guru Nanaks of the
[19:21] world.
[19:22] Once you spend time with them, you not
[19:25] only just learn the practice, but you
[19:27] also learn where a practice is going
[19:30] wrong. And then you go back and you say,
[19:31] "Guruji, can you tell me what I did
[19:33] this?" And then you read some more of
[19:35] the wisdom and then you realize, "Ah,
[19:36] this is where I fell up fell down. This
[19:38] is where my my practice is letting me
[19:40] down." So I think there are three things
[19:42] that you need. Meditation, I'm a massive
[19:44] believer in.
[19:45] But meditation on its own, I believe can
[19:48] without the wisdom can actually increase
[19:50] your ego. It can increase your sense of
[19:52] self-importance. So, you have to have
[19:54] that guru there, that teacher there,
[19:56] that really humbles you, that that tells
[19:58] you every time you're doing something
[19:59] wrong, and actually gives you that
[20:00] little bit of groundedness. And you need
[20:02] that other community of people that are
[20:03] just supporting you saying, "Yeah, this
[20:05] meditation's not working right now." And
[20:07] that community tells you, "Well, I tried
[20:08] this, try this now, try this." You need
[20:10] all three angles, and that I think is
[20:12] the most important thing if you really
[20:14] want to progress in this.
[20:16] Uh Sat Pal Bhai, you said something very
[20:17] interesting right now about how
[20:19] meditation without the right guidance or
[20:21] the right information could actually
[20:24] lead to your ego swelling up.
[20:26] So, again, in the world of yoga, there's
[20:28] a concept called siddhis, which means
[20:30] that as you meditate, your inner world
[20:32] becomes much calmer. And as your inner
[20:35] world becomes much calmer, it leads to
[20:38] sort of your mind unlocking its own
[20:41] abilities.
[20:42] Now, some people might experience those
[20:44] abilities and think to themselves, "Oh,
[20:47] I'm becoming smarter. Oh, I'm becoming
[20:49] capable of this. Oh, now when someone's
[20:51] in front of me, I can scan them, you
[20:54] know, from A to Z." Is that what you
[20:56] meant by your own ego swelling up where
[20:58] you experience these so-called
[20:59] superpowers and you think that you're
[21:01] doing something great? Uh I mean, that's
[21:03] one part of the question. The second
[21:05] part of the question is um
[21:08] what are some of those things that
[21:09] you've experienced through your own own
[21:11] journey? And and how you corrected those
[21:13] because I'm sure even you must have gone
[21:15] down a path of your ego slightly
[21:17] swelling up and you having to correct
[21:18] yourself.
[21:20] Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what um the
[21:24] idea of ego swelling up means that
[21:26] without having a master there to keep
[21:29] your ego in check, it's very easy for
[21:32] you to increase this idea of
[21:33] self-importance. Look how great I am.
[21:35] I'm meditating. I'm better than you.
[21:37] I've got a golden ticket to heaven. I'm
[21:39] definitely going to go there now, but
[21:41] look at you. And and so, this is where
[21:43] for me anyway, Guru Nanak's philosophy
[21:46] has massively impacted my life because
[21:48] when you read some of his wisdom, he
[21:50] does not allow room for even one shred
[21:54] of ego. He completely destroys the ego
[21:56] at every moment because he's so
[21:58] convinced that ego is the biggest
[22:00] barrier to you connecting with oneness,
[22:03] God, divine, whatever is,
[22:05] that your sense of self-importance, that
[22:08] I am something.
[22:09] It's very interesting that there's
[22:11] the ego is so subtle and so
[22:14] easy to trip you up. There's another
[22:17] side of the ego which you may not even
[22:19] catch. One is the spiritual ego which
[22:21] you've talked about, that I'm better
[22:23] than you, that I can do all these
[22:24] spiritual things. But you can also have
[22:26] another ego, which is I'm such a sinner.
[22:29] Look how small I am. I'm nothing. I'm so
[22:32] I I I'm humble. I'm nothing. But even if
[22:35] you do that, you retain a little bit of
[22:37] I am. At least I am. I'm a sinner, but
[22:38] at least I am.
[22:40] And Guru Nanak doesn't allow for this at
[22:42] all. So, his whole philosophy is
[22:44] constantly teaching you nothing is you.
[22:47] Learn to let go at every single level.
[22:51] That nothing belongs to you. No part of
[22:54] this belongs to you. The very idea that
[22:56] you exist is an absolute fallacy.
[22:59] It's just false. And only when you go
[23:02] into your meditation, and there are many
[23:04] different meditation techniques that
[23:06] essentially ask this question, "Who am
[23:07] I? Who are you?" And when you meditate
[23:10] on that idea, you realize I can't
[23:11] actually find the thing that I call me.
[23:14] Yet all the time that I'm driving around
[23:16] and and and and and walking around and
[23:19] speaking to people, I believe I'm in
[23:21] control of this body. But when you close
[23:23] your eyes and you start to introspect,
[23:25] you realize I can't find this thing
[23:28] called me.
[23:29] And that's where you realize the
[23:30] delusion of me itself. It's not actually
[23:33] there when you go look for it.
[23:35] I do have a supplemental question,
[23:38] which is related to competition in the
[23:40] middle of all this.
[23:41] Uh and I personally feel like
[23:43] competition is of two kinds. One's with
[23:46] your other competitors, people who are
[23:47] competing with you say in your same
[23:49] career.
[23:50] Now, for some people, that might be kind
[23:52] of the forefront of their motivation,
[23:54] that I need to beat this person, etc.
[23:57] That isn't the case for a lot of people.
[23:58] Like for me, I'm not a very competitive
[24:00] person. I I I look at everyone as
[24:01] friends around me. But what I do compete
[24:04] with is my own past, where maybe I
[24:07] didn't achieve what I wanted to. Maybe I
[24:10] didn't have the childhood that I wanted.
[24:12] And I'm constantly competing with myself
[24:14] to get ahead of that darker past. And I
[24:17] feel I mean, especially after talking to
[24:19] you, I feel even that is wrong because
[24:21] you're being harsh on yourself. Uh
[24:23] so, I'd love to know what the spiritual
[24:25] angles on competition are because we
[24:27] honestly see
[24:29] competition bringing out our country and
[24:31] our culture as a whole, that I am better
[24:33] than you. My thought is better than
[24:35] yours. My political belief is better
[24:37] than yours. My religious belief is
[24:38] better than yours.
[24:39] But that's just going to be a source of
[24:42] misery for you and your mind. And we've
[24:43] also got influences from the West. And
[24:45] again, I'm not I'm not using the West to
[24:47] say that that's how they think wrong and
[24:49] this is how we think right.
[24:51] But there are a lot of Western
[24:52] influences which really highlight
[24:54] competition as a forefront. The Last
[24:55] Dance featuring Michael Jordan, or you
[24:57] know, when you see your favorite
[24:58] athletes talk about competition, it
[25:00] fuels competition mindsets in a young
[25:03] person watching sport. So, in in this
[25:05] world that teaches you to be more
[25:07] competitive and is built out to make you
[25:09] competitive, how do you kind of break
[25:11] past that? That's fascinating because
[25:13] when we look at the most successful
[25:16] people in the world, the most
[25:17] competitive people in the world, let's
[25:19] look at the billionaires of the world.
[25:22] The question I always ask is, are the
[25:24] richest people in the world
[25:26] the happiest people in the world?
[25:28] And
[25:30] we all know deep in our heart that
[25:32] they're not the happiest people. Yes,
[25:33] they have a lot of material wealth, but
[25:35] there's also very high levels of
[25:37] depression at the people who have
[25:39] so-called succeeded either in business
[25:42] or in sports or in the arts or in any
[25:45] part of their career.
[25:47] Because what you've done
[25:49] for such a long time is misery has been
[25:52] fueling you.
[25:53] So, I'm not happy now. I will only be
[25:57] happy when this level is achieved.
[26:00] And because you're you're you even if
[26:01] you achieve that level,
[26:03] the practice that you've been doing
[26:05] every day is I'm not happy. I'm not
[26:06] happy. I'm not happy. So, guess what
[26:08] happens when you actually reach that
[26:09] level? You're still in that mindset of
[26:12] I'm not happy. There are very few people
[26:15] out there that have said, "I've made all
[26:16] the money I want to make. I'm done." Or
[26:18] I've reached the level of success that
[26:19] I've done that I needed to and I'm done.
[26:21] Most people who do that all of their
[26:23] life, they are so wrapped up in
[26:26] constantly trying to achieve more
[26:30] that they've let their mental health
[26:32] completely deteriorate. And I'm sure
[26:34] with so many people that you've
[26:35] interviewed, you've realized that the
[26:37] successful people are still not mentally
[26:40] healthy. They're still struggling on on
[26:42] that aspect of it. So, it goes back to
[26:44] asking yourself a very personal
[26:46] question. Why do I want to compete? What
[26:49] is at the root
[26:51] driver for me? Is it happiness?
[26:54] Is it something else? Is it to please my
[26:56] parents? What is it?
[26:58] And so, you realize that if happiness is
[27:01] your goal,
[27:03] save yourself the trouble. Realize right
[27:05] now that you can achieve material
[27:08] success, competitive success,
[27:11] but you will not get happiness in that
[27:13] particular method. So, that then you
[27:15] have to ask yourself the question, am I
[27:17] willing to do that? Am I willing to
[27:19] compromise my own sanity and mental
[27:21] health for all of those potential
[27:25] worldly gains? And this is something
[27:27] where
[27:28] religion and spirituality is at this
[27:30] point not trying to be prescriptive. It
[27:33] won't at any point tell you don't go out
[27:35] and chase a career. It won't tell you
[27:37] don't do these things. It'll tell you
[27:40] these are the things that you need to
[27:41] sort out right now.
[27:43] And
[27:44] if you can sort them out, then let those
[27:47] other things come in. But these worldly
[27:49] things are not going to be the things
[27:51] that that give you the deepest happiness
[27:53] because the reality is whatever you
[27:55] achieve in life, you're not going to be
[27:57] able to take it with you.
[27:59] Absolutely everything, including having
[28:01] perfect fitness with your body, having a
[28:04] perfect house and a great car and a
[28:06] perfect family and great career, none of
[28:08] those things are actually going to last.
[28:10] So, you're building all of your
[28:13] happiness on
[28:15] these very shaky foundations.
[28:18] So, the spiritual wisdom is always
[28:20] saying, "It doesn't matter what you do.
[28:22] Go ahead and do those things. That's not
[28:23] the problem. But while you're doing it,
[28:25] can you be centered? Can you be still
[28:27] and happy? And can you be happy right
[28:29] now in this moment?
[28:32] And not have to think about the next
[28:34] moment as delivering happiness." It's
[28:36] that whole if only, you know, we're
[28:38] always living if only this will happen,
[28:39] if only that happened. And
[28:42] just from my own personal life, I've
[28:44] seen so many of those if onlys, and I
[28:46] still struggle with them sometimes. I
[28:48] still have career ambitions. There's
[28:49] still things that I want to achieve.
[28:51] But in my mind, I catch myself when I
[28:54] see that, do you somehow have you fallen
[28:58] into that trap again? Do you somehow
[28:59] believe that happiness is over there?
[29:01] Happiness is tomorrow? And then I have
[29:03] to remind myself, "No, happiness is
[29:05] available to me right now. Peace and
[29:06] bliss is available right now." And every
[29:08] human being at the root of it is really
[29:11] only chasing peace.
[29:14] And what we don't know is that
[29:16] peace is inside of us. We think that
[29:18] peace comes when you have all of these
[29:20] things. And I I think that's the that's
[29:22] the only way that I can answer the
[29:24] question around competition is figure
[29:26] out why you're trying to compete.
[29:28] Mhm.
[29:29] I mean, the the kind of um practical way
[29:33] I've gone about this in my own recent
[29:34] past is if I'm feeling any sense of
[29:37] competition, any sense of feeling
[29:39] lesser, any sense of uh feeling anger or
[29:42] greed or any emotion that I think is
[29:46] that shouldn't be there in my mind. I go
[29:48] into a deep meditation session. And for
[29:51] me, that's what works. And by the end of
[29:52] that meditation, I'm fine. I have both
[29:55] contentment and inner strength to a
[29:57] certain degree. And the reason I bring
[29:59] this up is this is the kind of
[30:02] benefit of 6 years of meditation, 5 6
[30:04] years of it. When you meditate in the
[30:06] long term, that session of your
[30:08] meditation becomes a safe place for you.
[30:10] Uh and if you are feeling those negative
[30:12] emotions, it's like going in for a
[30:13] shower. You know, you've got dirt on
[30:14] you, you just like wash it off. So,
[30:16] that's one practical kind of angle on
[30:19] this that I wanted to highlight. Uh but
[30:21] Satpal bhai, you you mentioned about
[30:24] things that you take with you after your
[30:26] own death.
[30:27] And I know that, you know, every
[30:30] spiritual person consciously has this
[30:32] moment where they start thinking a lot
[30:34] about death. And it's a subject that
[30:36] I've thought a lot about over the last 2
[30:38] years seeing the amount of death we've
[30:40] seen in the world with COVID. Uh I've
[30:42] thought of my own death. I've thought of
[30:44] the death of my loved ones, my teams,
[30:46] uh the people closest to me.
[30:49] What I have strongly started believing
[30:51] in is a concept of rebirth. I do feel
[30:54] that things will begin again. Things
[30:56] will reboot again.
[30:57] What do you think about rebirth? Is it
[30:59] something you think about consciously?
[31:01] Because it'll it'll be about I mean, you
[31:04] they say that your rebirth and your your
[31:06] next birth is decided based on what
[31:08] you've done in this birth.
[31:10] I have two questions for you. One is
[31:11] your opinion on rebirth. The second is
[31:15] why is someone born as a Sikh? Why is
[31:19] someone born as a Hindu? Why is someone
[31:21] born as a Buddhist, a Muslim? Uh why is
[31:23] someone born in a tribe in Africa? Why
[31:26] is someone born in some other kind of
[31:28] religion? What do you think decides all
[31:30] that? Do you think Sikhs are born often
[31:32] as Sikhs again? Like just I'd love to
[31:35] know your opinion on this.
[31:38] It's interesting that
[31:40] death is
[31:42] so intertwined with
[31:44] many spiritual traditions.
[31:47] And becoming comfortable with your own
[31:50] death
[31:51] is seen as
[31:53] a fundamental part of any spiritual
[31:56] practice.
[31:57] Being comfortable with the idea that
[31:59] this entire story that I've built about
[32:02] my life, my life story, this whole
[32:04] character I am like this and I am like
[32:06] that and I want to achieve all these
[32:07] things. All of those are going to end.
[32:10] When I look at
[32:12] the Guru's teachings, Guru Nanak's
[32:13] teachings, one of the things they try to
[32:16] do is they remind us that death is
[32:20] always hanging over you.
[32:23] They give the example that
[32:25] uh a crane
[32:27] is a crane is is a type of bird that's
[32:30] standing very still and looking at the
[32:33] water. He looks like he's meditating,
[32:34] but really he's keeping really still so
[32:36] that he can catch the fish. And he says
[32:38] that's what people are like, that people
[32:41] are
[32:42] thinking that they're meditative, but in
[32:44] reality, what they're doing is they're
[32:45] trying to just always grab more things
[32:48] out of life. And he says that crane
[32:50] doesn't realize that while he's he's
[32:52] busy fishing and trying to to grab the
[32:54] fish and trying to grab life, there's a
[32:57] hawk that's flying around his head and
[32:59] the hawk can come and grab him at any
[33:00] time. So, the idea that death is going
[33:03] to happen to you
[33:05] is
[33:06] not only a
[33:08] absolute fact, but a fact that we don't
[33:10] like to think about is that it can
[33:12] happen at any time. So, my in my own
[33:15] practice,
[33:16] how I've become comfortable with death,
[33:18] and I'll move on to the rebirth question
[33:19] that you had as well.
[33:21] How I've become comfortable with death
[33:23] is
[33:24] that every single day
[33:27] there is a chance that I may die. And in
[33:29] fact,
[33:30] my personal practice is I wake up every
[33:33] morning and one of the mantras that I
[33:35] say to my head is today could be the day
[33:37] that I die.
[33:38] And I become very comfortable with that
[33:40] idea that today could be the day. Today
[33:42] is no more or any less special. Even
[33:44] though I'm perfectly healthy, and we all
[33:46] know so many people who were perfectly
[33:48] healthy one day and then the next day
[33:51] they were gone.
[33:52] And so, you have to become very
[33:54] comfortable with this idea. And that
[33:55] also helps with your previous question
[33:57] around life and achievement. I'm saying,
[33:59] well, today could be the day that I die.
[34:01] And I'm very comfortable with that idea.
[34:04] One of the things I try to do when it
[34:05] comes to me personally trying to help
[34:08] anyone with spirituality is I I only
[34:11] talk about things that I absolutely have
[34:13] experienced.
[34:15] And what I'm very open about is I
[34:17] haven't experienced what the next life
[34:19] is going to be.
[34:21] And the only way that I've reconciled it
[34:22] in my own mind is I have so many things
[34:25] to sort out in this life. I have a
[34:27] mindset that I need to sort out. I have
[34:28] a spiritual journey in this life.
[34:30] I honestly couldn't care less what
[34:32] happens in the next life. As far as I'm
[34:34] concerned, the body goes back into the
[34:36] ground, the air goes back with air, life
[34:38] energy goes back into life energy, and
[34:40] then that same life energy is then
[34:42] recycled. So, in this whatever we can
[34:45] call it, let's call it the soul, for
[34:46] example. Whatever this energy is that's
[34:48] inside of us has to have come from
[34:50] somewhere. And when it goes back, and it
[34:52] goes back to
[34:53] to the the universe itself.
[34:56] And it makes you think about the lessons
[34:59] that you learned in your very first
[35:00] science lessons about energy, that
[35:02] energy cannot be created or destroyed,
[35:05] it can only move from one form to
[35:06] another form. And I think about life
[35:08] energy in the same way. And that's how I
[35:10] have begun to understand what
[35:12] reincarnation is. It makes absolutely
[35:14] scientific sense that if there is some
[35:17] sort of ball of energy that's inside me
[35:19] that's keeping me alive, when that
[35:21] energy leaves, where is it going to go?
[35:23] It has to go into everything.
[35:25] And actually, that's how I see the
[35:26] people who have passed on,
[35:29] that they haven't disappeared. In fact,
[35:31] they're in the plants, they're in the
[35:33] birds that are flying around, they're in
[35:36] all of the animals and the trees. Life
[35:38] energy must continue. It really is a
[35:41] harmony that
[35:43] is something that you're going to go
[35:44] into as well. You have to go back into
[35:47] Mother Nature, and Mother Nature will
[35:49] then do whatever it wants with you.
[35:51] Whether there's a soul that then travels
[35:53] into another one,
[35:55] for me, I say I have no experience with
[35:57] that. I'm too busy trying to sort out
[35:59] this life to work out what's going to
[36:01] happen with the next life. And in the
[36:02] same way,
[36:04] I think some questions we can come up
[36:06] with our own theories. Why was I born
[36:08] like this? Why was I born into this
[36:09] family? But the truth is they're just
[36:11] going to be speculation. It's just you
[36:13] and me trying to rationalize some things
[36:15] that are beyond our understanding.
[36:18] There's a really nice example that says,
[36:20] why are leaves green?
[36:22] And you can say, well, the leaves are
[36:24] green because of chlorophyll and this
[36:26] and that.
[36:27] But that isn't an answer why are they
[36:28] green. That just answers how they are
[36:30] green. But the why is beyond
[36:34] our understanding. Some things are just
[36:36] the way they are. And one of the the
[36:38] main teachings that Guru Nanak gives in
[36:39] in very one of the earliest verses in
[36:42] the spiritual text called the Guru
[36:43] Granth Sahib, he says
[36:45] that
[36:46] nobody can explain how the universe
[36:49] works.
[36:50] Hukmi hovan akar, hukum na kaheya jae.
[36:53] He calls the universal law. He says the
[36:56] universal law continues to create, but
[36:58] it cannot be explained. These things we
[37:00] can rationalize and try to come up with
[37:02] our own theories, but the reality is we
[37:05] are here now. That's the only thing that
[37:07] you know as a fact. I am here now, and
[37:09] I'm not interested in in beliefs. I'm
[37:12] not interested in some belief system why
[37:14] I was like this or where I believe I
[37:15] will go. I'm interested, can I make the
[37:17] most of this moment right now?
[37:19] And so, it it allows you to just let go
[37:21] of even some of that spiritual debates
[37:25] that sometimes we love to get into. It
[37:27] allows you to let go of all of those
[37:28] things and say, I have no ability to
[37:31] answer that question.
[37:32] That is life is just the way it is. And
[37:34] it allows you
[37:36] to just become very harmonious with
[37:38] whatever life is doing. You say,
[37:40] whatever life does, I'm okay with it.
[37:42] Yeah, I think the concept of humility in
[37:45] one's mind causes you to understand that
[37:48] your mind isn't capable of understanding
[37:50] everything. The true knowledge is
[37:52] knowing that you know nothing. But with
[37:54] the stuff that you do know, you try
[37:57] doing your best with that.
[37:58] Like everyone was not born to be a
[38:00] bowler. You know, some people are just
[38:02] born to be batsman. That's what I'd say.
[38:04] So, if if you're just born to be a
[38:06] batsman, you focus on your batting and
[38:07] let go of the bowling. But you try being
[38:08] the best possible batsman out there.
[38:10] Sorry, that's a cricket reference that
[38:12] keeps kind of sprouting up in this
[38:14] podcast.
[38:15] Um I do I do have some more questions
[38:18] about Sikhism. And I come from a place
[38:20] of being from a Punjabi family. So,
[38:22] every single Punjabi family is deeply
[38:24] connected to Sikhism in some form. It's
[38:26] either you've grown up going to
[38:28] Gurudwaras, you've grown up with a lot
[38:29] of Sikh friends.
[38:31] The one
[38:32] thing that I connected with when it came
[38:34] to Sikhism, other than the stuff you've
[38:36] already spoken about, I was always
[38:38] connected to the humility of it, the
[38:40] concept of Ik Onkar.
[38:41] The other aspect that I was extremely
[38:44] connected to was the warrior spirit. Um
[38:47] you know, not not to go out and be a
[38:50] part of war, but kind of to wake up with
[38:52] a warrior spirit every day. That no
[38:54] matter what difficulty is in front of
[38:55] me, if I wake up with the spirit of a
[38:57] warrior, it's something I could take on.
[38:59] And that's something that's helped me so
[39:00] much in my own journey of my career, my
[39:03] own journey of even my meditation, my
[39:05] peace. I will be able to overcome this.
[39:07] I'll be able to move forward.
[39:09] Um
[39:10] I'd love to know that warrior kind of
[39:13] aspect of Sikhism. Because even if we
[39:15] talk about the Sikh community in the
[39:17] modern day in India,
[39:19] all Indians owe a lot to the Sikh
[39:21] warrior community. Be it the
[39:23] independence movement, be it before that
[39:25] when the country was undergoing
[39:26] invasions, the Sikhs were the first line
[39:29] of defense. They're the warriors that go
[39:30] to the forefront.
[39:32] So, it was so inspirational for me to
[39:34] just be a Punjabi and and kind of know
[39:36] that, okay, these these are my brothers,
[39:39] you know, who who went who went there.
[39:41] They're all Indians as brothers. They
[39:44] you know you could you could it kind of
[39:45] look at that from many angles. But on a
[39:47] personal boyhood level for me the
[39:49] warrior aspect of everything that Guru
[39:52] Gobind Ji said
[39:53] was so kind of important in shaping up
[39:56] my own mind. So I'd love to know what
[39:59] you have to say about that warrior
[40:00] aspect of Sikhism.
[40:02] It's a beautiful part of the tradition
[40:04] and I just give you a little bit of a
[40:06] the backdrop for those of your audience
[40:08] who who who don't know the story around
[40:11] why Sikhism came.
[40:15] It started with the birth of Guru Nanak
[40:17] in the 1400s and in the early 1500s
[40:22] India began to see invasion from Mughal
[40:25] emperors. So the real Mughal Empire into
[40:29] India was around those 1500s and it
[40:31] started with an emperor called Babur.
[40:34] And what you saw at that time was huge
[40:38] amounts of political divisions, a lot of
[40:42] segregation, a lot of tension and really
[40:46] he was acting like a dictator coming in
[40:48] and and and mass killing
[40:51] so many people because he just believed
[40:53] that I am owed this country. I'll I'll
[40:55] just come and take whatever I want. So
[40:57] if you just think about the geography of
[40:59] Punjab and where it started that was
[41:02] where the the Arab invasion started
[41:05] around from those sorts of areas and so
[41:07] you had a group of people rise up and
[41:09] say
[41:09] this is this is our home. You have to
[41:13] you have to
[41:14] stand up for what you believe. These are
[41:16] our brothers. This is our this is our
[41:17] family. So we have to stand up for these
[41:19] people.
[41:20] And that's really where the whole
[41:23] warrior aspect started from. You
[41:25] mentioned Guru Gobind Singh Ji one of
[41:26] the key lessons that he teaches about
[41:28] being a warrior he says only when every
[41:32] other method of diplomacy has failed
[41:35] only then should you pick up the sword.
[41:37] And sometimes we think that you know
[41:41] sometimes you have quite a negative
[41:43] stereotype of a Sikh is you know he's
[41:44] always hot headed and he's always ready
[41:46] to pick out the sword and and ready to
[41:48] fight but actually that's not the real
[41:50] Sikh. The real Sikh or the Khalsa which
[41:52] is this warrior class of the Sikhs
[41:54] itself is that there are essentially
[41:57] meditators first
[41:59] and warriors second. So when your
[42:03] determination to stand up for injustice,
[42:07] stand up against human rights abuses
[42:10] when that comes from a sense of peace
[42:12] first, when that comes from a sense of
[42:15] equality that everybody deserves to live
[42:17] a peaceful life, when that comes from a
[42:19] sense of I may not follow the same
[42:22] religion as you, I may not
[42:24] be of the same tradition or background
[42:26] as you but it's my job to defend your
[42:28] right to live however you want.
[42:30] Everybody deserves to live and it really
[42:33] you can talk about the the human rights
[42:35] act and all of the human rights
[42:37] privileges that we we we we we allow
[42:40] ourselves in the world today
[42:42] these things have been
[42:44] pioneered by some of these warriors who
[42:46] actually said I'm here to defend you.
[42:47] But it doesn't come from from agitation.
[42:49] It doesn't come from anger. It actually
[42:51] comes from love.
[42:53] So when you are loving then you are in a
[42:56] position that you can help other people.
[42:59] And so
[43:00] the the sword that all
[43:03] baptized Sikhs
[43:05] which we call somebody who has taken
[43:07] Amrit which is this this this spiritual
[43:09] initiation
[43:11] the actual name of the sword that we
[43:13] carry is called Kirpan. And Kirpan means
[43:16] to give Kirpa to others, to give
[43:17] blessings to others. It is you are doing
[43:20] it out of your own grace, out of a sense
[43:22] of love for everyone else. So you never
[43:24] fight a war or anything like that out of
[43:26] a sense of agitation. The other thing
[43:29] that Guru Gobind Singh Ji taught was the
[43:31] Khalsa is one who fights a battle daily.
[43:36] Every single day whether that doesn't
[43:39] mean you get up and you physically start
[43:41] fighting. It means every single day you
[43:44] need to see life as an opportunity to
[43:48] destroy negativity, to destroy injustice
[43:52] even in your in your workplace, even in
[43:55] your family, even if there are things
[43:57] going around around you just with the
[43:59] people in your in your close circle you
[44:02] need to be the person that says
[44:04] right is right. These are the things
[44:06] that need to be done. This is the right
[44:08] way. And sometimes that's a big
[44:09] sacrifice. A lot of us we don't want to
[44:10] do that. We don't want to stand up for
[44:12] what's right. We don't want to we don't
[44:14] want to agitate anyone. I'm probably the
[44:16] least confrontational person. I hate
[44:18] getting into arguments with anyone.
[44:20] But sometimes it has to come from a
[44:22] place of
[44:24] am I going to stand here and watch this
[44:28] injustice happen in front of my eyes?
[44:30] Can I can I be happy with myself
[44:32] allowing that to happen? And when you're
[44:34] agitated internally from the things that
[44:37] are going on around you and you say no
[44:39] something has to be done. That's who a
[44:41] true warrior is. So a warrior is one
[44:43] who's coming from love, not from hatred
[44:46] or segregation. In fact even the person
[44:48] that you are fighting against so to
[44:51] speak, you're doing it with love. I'm
[44:52] doing it so that you may understand that
[44:54] there's a better way to live. I'm doing
[44:56] it out of blessing for you
[44:59] that you need to understand that there's
[45:00] a better way to live. And I won't do
[45:01] that with a sword first. I'll do that
[45:03] first with my kindness, with my words,
[45:06] with my compassion towards you.
[45:08] Pal Bhai I would love to know a little
[45:10] bit more about the Kirpan, the Kara. Um
[45:13] what is the significance of what
[45:16] non-Sikhs know about Sikhs?
[45:19] When we look at people with turbans,
[45:21] when we look at people with beards, I
[45:22] feel that Sikhs have a different
[45:24] understanding of it and most of the
[45:26] outside world doesn't. So I'd love for
[45:29] you to highlight these outward elements
[45:31] of Sikhism. What does it actually
[45:33] represent?
[45:34] First and foremost it's really important
[45:36] to clarify that these things, the
[45:40] Kirpan, the Kara, the Kesh, all of these
[45:42] things, these don't make you a Sikh.
[45:46] And it is not a Sikh is somebody who has
[45:49] a turban on their head. A Sikh is not
[45:50] somebody who wears a Kara.
[45:52] These are simply just spiritual
[45:55] reminders for a lifestyle. So I want
[45:59] a lot of people to understand that when
[46:01] when I say the word Sikh I don't mean a
[46:04] group of people from Punjab. That's not
[46:06] what I'm talking about. That's not what
[46:07] a real Sikh is. A Sikh is not a Punjabi.
[46:10] They're not synonymous with each other.
[46:12] A Sikh is somebody who is willing to
[46:16] learn about their true self and willing
[46:19] to follow and practice all the things
[46:22] that are required to remember that this
[46:25] is all oneness. So a really a student of
[46:27] oneness is what we would define as a
[46:29] Sikh.
[46:30] Now going back to
[46:33] the where these sort of religious
[46:35] symbols or or or or articles of faith as
[46:38] some people describe them, where they
[46:40] come from is these are really some of
[46:43] the practices that developed as the
[46:45] later Gurus came in. So for those who
[46:47] are unaware Guru Nanak was born in the
[46:49] 1400s and he had nine other successors
[46:53] and the last one is the one that you've
[46:54] mentioned Guru Gobind Singh Ji. And from
[46:57] about the time of the fifth and the
[46:59] sixth Gurus
[47:01] what we started to see was that there
[47:04] was a need for not just spiritual people
[47:08] but spirituality and the warrior side of
[47:11] things to to to merge because we were
[47:14] starting to see real oppression in
[47:17] India. So the fifth Guru some people may
[47:20] not be aware is known as Guru Arjan Dev
[47:23] Ji. He was actually a martyr. So the
[47:26] Mughals actually assassinated him. He
[47:28] was tortured because they were trying so
[47:31] hard to convert the rest of India that
[47:34] they were just even going after the
[47:35] spiritual masters.
[47:37] So the fifth Guru was was tortured and
[47:40] he was assassinated by the Mughal elite.
[47:44] His son Guru Hargobind Ji took on the
[47:47] Guruship next and he decided that I can
[47:50] no longer just be a meditator. Now I
[47:51] have to be a meditator with a sword. And
[47:54] so as it goes on and on you begin to see
[47:58] that then his
[48:00] his son was the ninth Guru then his
[48:03] grandson Guru Gobind Singh Ji was the
[48:05] tenth Guru. So you began to see that
[48:07] these Gurus were now spiritual and
[48:10] warriors at the same time. So they were
[48:12] the ones who were actually going and
[48:13] fighting some of these battles. They
[48:15] weren't just sitting in the back saying
[48:16] you guys go. I'll stay back here. They
[48:18] say no we have to be at the forefront.
[48:20] So these Gurus became warriors and
[48:22] meditators. So they were trying to teach
[48:23] that this is what the society needs
[48:25] right now. This is what the world needs
[48:27] right now. We need to be both.
[48:29] And so in doing that they they created a
[48:32] code of conduct that if you are to live
[48:35] this lifestyle there's a couple of
[48:37] things that you need to do. And and they
[48:39] gave us what they call the five Ks.
[48:41] Basically five religious symbols that
[48:45] were something that you have to keep
[48:47] with you all the time but they were
[48:49] really five reminders of different ways
[48:52] different practices that you need to
[48:53] hold on to. So the first one is Kara
[48:55] which you'll see every Sikh will wear a
[48:57] a a bangle around their their hand. But
[49:00] all of these have very deep spiritual
[49:01] meaning and and actually we could spend
[49:03] a lot of time but I'll very quickly go
[49:04] through those. So why does a Sikh wear a
[49:06] Kara? Well for multiple reasons. Number
[49:08] one it's round. So it has no beginning
[49:11] and ending and this is a reminder to you
[49:14] that actually God is always there. There
[49:16] is always a oneness. So you have to kind
[49:18] of see this as a way of reminding you
[49:21] that no matter what you do you know when
[49:24] we were kids we we were taught that you
[49:26] know whatever if you stick your hand out
[49:27] to do something wrong the Kara will will
[49:29] be there as a reminder you or as a
[49:30] reminder.
[49:31] And there are so many beautiful parts of
[49:33] of this symbolism. You see this is
[49:36] intrinsic in in Indian culture that
[49:38] whenever a student historically would go
[49:41] and
[49:42] take on a guru even if they were like a
[49:44] music teacher some some sort of teacher
[49:47] the teacher would initiate and say that
[49:50] I now accept you as my student and they
[49:52] would wrap a string around their hand
[49:54] and say I accept you as my student. So
[49:56] we see the kara as the guru saying I
[49:57] accept you as my student and this is
[49:59] basically why every Sikh or anybody who
[50:01] identifies as a Sikh even if they don't
[50:03] wear anything else they basically say
[50:05] this is my symbol that I belong to this
[50:06] guru that I belong to this school of
[50:09] thinking and I'm allowing this teacher
[50:11] to influence my life and teach me how to
[50:13] live. And in that same way we were given
[50:15] a kirpan which we talked about which is
[50:17] the sword. We were given kesh and we
[50:20] were told that
[50:22] if you keep your hair
[50:24] completely intact. So some people are
[50:26] very surprised when they look at me and
[50:28] I tell them that I've never cut my hair
[50:30] from the day that I was born. So they
[50:32] ask oh how long is your hair? How long
[50:34] is your beard? All these the questions
[50:35] come about. And and again these are just
[50:38] reminders. What is the purpose of
[50:40] keeping long hair? You'll begin to see
[50:42] all spiritual masters in all different
[50:44] traditions have a long hair and there's
[50:46] something very beautiful about watching
[50:49] your hair grow watching the color change
[50:53] and it's again another reminder when you
[50:55] look at yourself in the mirror you
[50:57] realize I'm not even control of I mean
[50:59] I'm not in control of this body. This
[51:01] body has its own life cycle. This body
[51:04] is doing its own thing. So when you
[51:05] watch your own hair grow and you watch
[51:07] it turn gray you begin to realize this
[51:10] body is going to go one day this is not
[51:11] me. So it's all part of the spiritual
[51:14] training. So you've got your kara your
[51:16] kirpan and you've got your kesh.
[51:19] And then you've got your kanga. Kanga is
[51:22] a little comb that you wear at the back
[51:23] of your head and that's just a reminder
[51:26] of cleanliness. Some some people say
[51:28] that it's to do with having a a clean
[51:32] and holistic lifestyle that you're
[51:34] always reminding yourself that I have to
[51:36] be
[51:38] clean in the world. I have to allow
[51:39] myself to be presentable in such a way.
[51:42] I can't just be somebody that goes sits
[51:44] in the jungle and meditates. You know
[51:46] Guru Nanak was invited many times to
[51:50] join the spiritual elite around the
[51:54] world. Every time he went and spoke to
[51:55] spiritual masters
[51:58] the spiritual masters would ask Guru
[52:00] Nanak what is happening in the world?
[52:02] And Guru Nanak's reply was the world is
[52:03] burning and the people who can help are
[52:06] sitting up here in a mountain
[52:07] meditating.
[52:08] And Guru Nanak rejected this idea that
[52:10] you need to go sit in a mountain or be a
[52:12] monk in order to be spiritual. He said
[52:15] I'm going to show you that I can have a
[52:17] job I can have a wife I can have
[52:20] children and still reach spiritual peak.
[52:22] And the reason I'm going to do that is
[52:23] because that's what normal people do.
[52:26] Normal people are doing this so I need
[52:27] to show them how do you be spiritual
[52:29] doing normal things? And that's what
[52:30] that kanga represents living a lifestyle
[52:33] where you're just carrying out your
[52:35] daily duties.
[52:36] And the final is a kachera. Kachera is
[52:38] these briefs these shorts that you wear
[52:40] underneath your clothing and again
[52:43] that's about self-restraint. Your
[52:45] kachera is about don't think that your
[52:47] life is just about trying to get as many
[52:50] relationships and sleep with as many
[52:51] partners. It's about having
[52:53] self-restraint and not thinking that
[52:55] life is all about
[52:57] going out there and just grabbing all
[52:58] the all the sensual experiences in the
[53:01] world. So all of these things are really
[53:03] practical reminders of how you can live
[53:05] your life because there are so many
[53:07] instances in life where your mind does
[53:09] get tempted your mind does go in the
[53:12] wrong directions and you you use these
[53:14] tools to remind you that this is not
[53:16] what I'm really here to achieve in life.
[53:18] And when you look at yourself in the
[53:19] mirror the idea is you shouldn't see
[53:21] your own reflection. When you look in
[53:23] the mirror you should see your guru's
[53:25] image and when you when you see the guru
[53:27] in front of you then you realize ah my
[53:29] life is about my guru it's not about me.
[53:31] It's about my master teaching me how to
[53:33] really live not about just me trying to
[53:35] figure out life in my own way. But it
[53:37] doesn't mean that if you don't have
[53:38] these things that you're inferior in
[53:40] some way or that you're not a good Sikh.
[53:42] Anybody from any background can be a
[53:44] Sikh. Guru Nanak's
[53:46] um most um
[53:49] beloved companion was somebody called
[53:51] Bhai Mardana who was a Muslim. So Guru
[53:54] Nanak and Bhai Mardana traveled around
[53:56] the world for decades and so his best
[53:58] friend was a Muslim. But
[54:01] you wouldn't call him a Muslim because
[54:02] he was also following Guru Nanak. So a
[54:05] Sikh is not somebody who is rejecting
[54:09] other religions and saying I've given up
[54:10] other religions and I'm now going to
[54:12] only be a Sikh. That's not what Guru
[54:14] Nanak Sikh he is.
[54:16] You can be a Hindu who is following the
[54:19] Guru's tradition. You can be a Muslim
[54:21] who's following the Guru's tradition and
[54:22] Guru Nanak went around the world and
[54:24] spoke to so many people and he said let
[54:27] me teach you what being a Muslim really
[54:29] means. And there are verses in his
[54:30] writings which are teaching people about
[54:33] how to do a namaz how to do fasting
[54:36] properly.
[54:36] People are surprised that Guru Granth
[54:38] Sahib actually has this sort of
[54:39] information and it teaches people from
[54:41] the Hindu traditions this is what
[54:43] this is how you really look at Krishna.
[54:46] This is what Shiva really means. This is
[54:48] how you celebrate Holi.
[54:51] And it's all about how do you use all of
[54:53] these as opportunities to understand
[54:55] your mindset. And all of these they go
[54:56] back to don't worry about the external.
[54:59] The external doesn't define who a Sikh
[55:01] is. These things do not define who a
[55:03] Sikh is.
[55:05] A Sikh is completely defined by the
[55:06] person who sorted out his own mind and
[55:08] sorted out his mindset.
[55:11] Wow. Okay this was the highlight of this
[55:13] episode for me.
[55:15] Just having this conversation with these
[55:17] are questions that I've had in my mind
[55:19] since I was a little boy. And it's it's
[55:21] why I was waiting for this conversation
[55:23] for 2 years.
[55:24] Uh but Satpal Bhai I mean I have to
[55:27] bring it back to 2022
[55:29] and and you and your mindset with the
[55:31] amount of spiritual knowledge you have
[55:34] already.
[55:35] You know I I know I know you're someone
[55:37] who studies different faiths as well. I
[55:39] know you're someone who who possibly
[55:40] accumulates a lot of knowledge. What
[55:42] have you learned about Sikhism at this
[55:44] stage of your life? And are you still
[55:45] going deeper into it? Are you still
[55:47] learning more?
[55:48] I think what's very interesting is when
[55:51] you put yourself in a position where you
[55:54] are
[55:55] educating others
[55:57] you actually become the best student at
[55:59] that point. You're forced to constantly
[56:02] reflect on your own life and look at am
[56:06] I actually doing all the stuff that I
[56:08] say? And I put my hand up all the time
[56:10] and I try to be as open and all and
[56:12] honest as I can on my own YouTube
[56:14] channel where I where I do all of my my
[56:16] sort of education and my lectures is
[56:19] I at never at any point want people to
[56:22] believe that I'm somehow spiritually
[56:24] uplifted or somehow I'm high. Yes I've
[56:26] read a lot. Yes I've retained a lot of
[56:29] information and I'm able to I think
[56:32] quite well communicate it with people.
[56:35] But I'm constantly going through my own
[56:38] inner battles because we're human at the
[56:40] end of the day. I don't believe that I'm
[56:41] somehow spiritually superior.
[56:44] It's very interesting I think it was
[56:46] back in
[56:47] maybe around 2000 and
[56:51] 10 2011 I was invited to Sweden and I
[56:55] was
[56:56] giving a talk and when they were
[56:57] introducing me they said we have a
[57:00] spiritual teacher who's going to teach
[57:02] you.
[57:03] And the first thing that I said when I
[57:04] began my talk
[57:07] was in my tradition
[57:09] nobody is allowed to be a teacher.
[57:11] In my tradition everybody is called a
[57:14] Sikh and the word Sikh comes from the
[57:17] word sishya which means student. And so
[57:20] it's like you enroll in a school that
[57:23] you're never allowed to graduate from.
[57:26] I'm always a student. I'm always
[57:28] learning because at any point if I say
[57:31] that I'm the teacher ego comes back in.
[57:34] If you say that you're the teacher what
[57:36] you said is I've learned everything.
[57:38] And so my mindset is constantly
[57:42] that I am still trying to apply this in
[57:45] my daily life. And sometimes you fail so
[57:48] badly sometimes you get so angry so
[57:51] stressed so worked up in your own life
[57:54] and you have to take a step back and you
[57:55] have to look and say wow where's all
[57:57] those teachings gone now?
[57:59] Where's all those things that you've
[58:01] been studying and teaching other people
[58:03] and still you're falling down and it
[58:05] really humbles you to realize I'm
[58:07] nowhere. I haven't achieved anything if
[58:09] I'm still doing this. I mean being a
[58:11] parent is so difficult but so many times
[58:14] you just catch yourself getting
[58:15] frustrated at your kids because they're
[58:17] just doing something that you've tried
[58:18] to tell them 10 times don't do that. And
[58:21] you see how easy it is for the mind to
[58:23] get worked up. And then you begin to
[58:25] realize actually I still haven't learned
[58:27] anything. I still need to practice this
[58:29] every day. And the only way that I've
[58:31] that I've begun to understand what
[58:35] this practice means in my life what
[58:37] meditation means in my life is that I
[58:39] used to think that I've meditated so
[58:42] many times that I've done so many years
[58:44] of meditation why am I not spiritually
[58:46] higher anymore? Why why haven't I
[58:48] achieved something even higher? And I
[58:50] realized quite recently
[58:52] that that's the wrong way of looking at
[58:54] it. The better way to look at it is like
[58:57] the way we brush our teeth.
[58:59] We never brush our teeth in the morning
[59:00] and think why do I still need to brush
[59:02] my teeth? I've been brushing for so many
[59:04] years and by now my teeth should be
[59:07] clean. We don't think like that.
[59:09] We all know
[59:11] that every day dirt accumulates and so
[59:15] every morning you have to brush your
[59:16] teeth. And in the same way I've begun to
[59:18] understand meditation in the same way
[59:19] that every day my ego increases every
[59:24] day my attachments to the world
[59:26] increases and my I fall down the trap of
[59:29] my own ego and so a daily meditation is
[59:32] allowing to daily cleanse that way of
[59:34] thinking to wipe the slate clean and
[59:36] remind myself this is what life is
[59:38] really about. This is who you really
[59:40] are. And so I always say that I'm I'm at
[59:44] ground zero. I'm at like level zero. I'm
[59:46] never any higher than level zero because
[59:49] every day I keep I find a a way to get
[59:51] back down and fall down back to back to
[59:53] the ground again.
[59:55] What what kind of meditation do you do
[59:57] and how long do you sit for?
[59:59] For me meditation, there are two things
[1:00:02] that I do. One is a formal practice
[1:00:03] where you sit down, you close your eyes
[1:00:05] and you actually meditate. And the
[1:00:07] second is
[1:00:10] how do you actually do this in your
[1:00:11] daily practice? And for me there are
[1:00:14] what the the technique that Guru Nanak
[1:00:16] gives us is what he calls Nam, which we
[1:00:18] can also call Manter. Which is to use a
[1:00:22] wisdom word throughout your day that
[1:00:25] constantly reminds you of the to let go
[1:00:30] of this this idea of the sense of self.
[1:00:32] And this is I think what is slightly
[1:00:34] different about Guru Nanak's approach to
[1:00:36] to Manter is that it's not a magic word.
[1:00:40] Sometimes people think of a Manter, they
[1:00:42] say you don't need to know the meaning,
[1:00:44] the sound itself can can take you
[1:00:46] somewhere. And Guru Nanak actually gives
[1:00:48] a different definition of Nam and
[1:00:50] Manter. And he says that you need to
[1:00:52] understand what it actually means. And
[1:00:54] what I've begun to understand what Nam
[1:00:57] means in my life is it's really got two
[1:00:59] levels to it.
[1:01:01] The first is
[1:01:03] we would say Bhagwan ka Nam Lena, just
[1:01:05] to to call out God's name. But once you
[1:01:07] do that, you you thinking of God is
[1:01:08] somewhere else. But that's the initial
[1:01:10] stage. That's
[1:01:11] that's how it begins for everyone.
[1:01:13] And what it simply starts with is to
[1:01:15] just what I call Nam, the first stage of
[1:01:17] Nam is Namo, Namaskar karna, to just bow
[1:01:20] down. I bow to you. I bow to you. At
[1:01:23] everything at every single thing that we
[1:01:26] see. You see the sunrise, I bow to you.
[1:01:29] I see other people. Look at this
[1:01:31] beautiful baby, I bow to you. Look at
[1:01:34] this traffic jam that I'm stuck in, I
[1:01:37] bow to you.
[1:01:38] Look at this really busy crowded
[1:01:40] marketplace, I bow to you. So that's
[1:01:42] that initial stage of Nam. And whether
[1:01:44] you sit and you do that in your practice
[1:01:46] as you're closing your eyes or you're
[1:01:49] doing that as you go about your daily
[1:01:51] life. That I bow to you. I bow to you. I
[1:01:54] bow to you becomes so
[1:01:57] habitual. It becomes so much ingrained
[1:02:00] in your daily practice that it leads you
[1:02:02] to the second stage of what Nam does is
[1:02:05] Nam goes from Namo Namo Namo to Name
[1:02:09] Name Name. There is no me. There is no
[1:02:11] me. There is no me. Even this about you.
[1:02:14] There is no me. And so for me the whole
[1:02:17] purpose of meditation is to dissolve the
[1:02:18] sense of I am. The dissolve the sense of
[1:02:20] ego. That I am something.
[1:02:23] That I And and this is the the the real
[1:02:25] difficulty of what I I believe Guru
[1:02:28] Nanak's technique is is that he's not
[1:02:30] allowing you to say meditation is for
[1:02:33] you to improve your career. Meditation
[1:02:35] is for you to get to call God. Most
[1:02:37] people do God as Nam and Manter as
[1:02:40] God calling.
[1:02:42] It's almost as though you're sitting
[1:02:43] here and saying come on God. Come on
[1:02:45] God. Come on God. And then God doesn't
[1:02:47] come and he say okay, I'll try again.
[1:02:49] I'll see you next week. I'll try again.
[1:02:51] So what I try to do with my own
[1:02:53] meditation is I am reminding myself to
[1:02:57] let go of the idea of me.
[1:03:00] And whether I do that sitting down or
[1:03:02] whether I'm doing it as I'm walking
[1:03:03] around is constantly just reminding me
[1:03:07] that life is not about me.
[1:03:09] This body is not about me.
[1:03:12] This situation that is happening right
[1:03:13] now is not about me. I'm here. I'm
[1:03:16] participating in it in it.
[1:03:18] But I'm not here as a real sense of
[1:03:22] self. It is God talking to God. This is
[1:03:24] oneness talking to oneness. And the
[1:03:26] amount of peace that that brings in your
[1:03:29] life.
[1:03:31] And it doesn't mean that you don't do
[1:03:33] anything. It doesn't mean that you don't
[1:03:34] react or you don't act or respond to the
[1:03:37] certain situation. It means that you're
[1:03:40] able to just be in complete flow and
[1:03:43] harmony. And that to me is what the real
[1:03:45] meditation is trying to get you to.
[1:03:47] Where you completely accept whatever
[1:03:49] life is doing even if that means that
[1:03:52] you may need to respond in a particular
[1:03:54] way. I think a lot of the times when
[1:03:55] people have heard me talk online, they
[1:03:57] think that when I talk about acceptance,
[1:03:59] which is one of the big subjects that I
[1:04:01] that I try and share is they think well,
[1:04:05] you know, I've got a really difficult
[1:04:06] person in my home right now who's
[1:04:08] abusing me. Do I need to accept that?
[1:04:10] And they think that acceptance means
[1:04:11] inaction. And that's not the same.
[1:04:14] They're not the same thing.
[1:04:15] And for me my meditation is constantly
[1:04:17] just trying to remind myself that
[1:04:20] whatever is happening in life, I'm okay
[1:04:22] with it. Even if it means that I need to
[1:04:24] do something about it. I am coming from
[1:04:27] a sense of peace. So for me meditation
[1:04:29] is something that is just happening 24
[1:04:31] hours a day when I remember to do it.
[1:04:33] That's that's the goal to try and be
[1:04:35] that in that space 24 hours a day. But
[1:04:37] I'm not stopping myself from meditating.
[1:04:39] One of the best experiences
[1:04:41] I used to have when I was sitting on the
[1:04:43] train going to work every day, going in
[1:04:45] into London. And I'm experiencing these
[1:04:49] deep senses of joy and and and bliss and
[1:04:52] euphoria. And I'm looking around me and
[1:04:54] everybody else is on their iPhones and
[1:04:56] and and reading the newspaper and
[1:04:58] everybody looks miserable and I'm
[1:04:59] thinking I'm thinking wow, this is
[1:05:01] possible wherever anything is happening.
[1:05:04] And I think that's what you begin to
[1:05:05] realize that meditation has the ability
[1:05:08] to lift you up
[1:05:10] in all scenarios of life. And I think
[1:05:12] that's to me where you've begun to
[1:05:14] understand that meditation isn't
[1:05:15] something that you just do for 5 minutes
[1:05:17] or 10 minutes a day or even if you do it
[1:05:19] for an hour.
[1:05:20] It's the real world application where
[1:05:22] meditation really counts. And that's
[1:05:24] that's what I try to practice as much as
[1:05:26] possible.
[1:05:27] Wow.
[1:05:28] So Pal Bhai, just speaking to you left
[1:05:30] me feeling extremely calm by the end of
[1:05:33] this 1 hour or so that we've recorded.
[1:05:36] Uh I asked you a lot of my personal
[1:05:37] questions and that for me is what I save
[1:05:40] for these spiritual podcasts. So while I
[1:05:42] have a ton of questions about Sikhism,
[1:05:44] about the universe, about how to go
[1:05:47] about your daily life from that place of
[1:05:51] the Sikhi thought process. Uh I think
[1:05:54] we'll save that for another episode
[1:05:56] because I want people to go back to the
[1:05:57] beginning of this episode and reabsorb
[1:05:59] some of it because some of the stuff
[1:06:01] you've spoken about is a little heavy
[1:06:03] and I feel that with these kind of
[1:06:05] podcasts people do need to retain things
[1:06:07] to really kind of get the nectar out of
[1:06:09] this. So just want to conclude this
[1:06:12] episode with me bowing down to you
[1:06:14] genuinely from my heart. Um you know, I
[1:06:17] and I know that I know the humble way
[1:06:19] that you look at life. But I do feel
[1:06:22] that um you are a big kind of channel
[1:06:25] for God's work to be done in this world.
[1:06:28] So just it was an honor hosting you on
[1:06:31] the show, sir.
[1:06:32] Really, it was an absolute pleasure as
[1:06:34] well. I said to you offline that I'm so
[1:06:37] inspired by the work that you do. And
[1:06:39] for you to introduce spirituality to a
[1:06:42] younger generation for whom atheism is
[1:06:45] now the norm for a lot of people to just
[1:06:48] begin to understand that spirituality is
[1:06:51] applicable to everyone. It is for the
[1:06:54] atheist and the so-called religious as
[1:06:55] well. And I think that's that's where
[1:06:57] you and I are
[1:06:58] are are working towards the same goal.
[1:07:00] And I genuinely
[1:07:03] humbled by the fact that you've even in
[1:07:05] invited me on the show. It's it's it's a
[1:07:06] real inspiration just to be speaking to
[1:07:08] you and your ability to connect with
[1:07:11] other people by being so raw, being so
[1:07:14] honest, being so vulnerable. I look at
[1:07:16] the the the stuff that you put out on on
[1:07:18] on your podcast and I say wow, I don't
[1:07:20] think I could be that brave. So it's
[1:07:21] actually such a joy for me to speak to
[1:07:24] you as well. I would love to be invited
[1:07:25] back on the podcast if you'll have me,
[1:07:27] if your audience will have me, it'll be
[1:07:28] an absolute pleasure as well. Thank you
[1:07:29] so much. I think there's there's
[1:07:31] hundreds of episodes that we're supposed
[1:07:33] to do together. And Sat Pal Bhai, I'm
[1:07:35] hoping to have you in person for the
[1:07:37] next one. I'm I'm sure we're going to do
[1:07:40] countless episodes, but that's the
[1:07:41] number of questions I have. So genuinely
[1:07:44] thank you. Thank you for being a part of
[1:07:46] this, sir. And I hope that this
[1:07:48] I hope this conversation goes out to the
[1:07:50] right minds, the people who need this.
[1:07:52] So thank you.
[1:07:54] Thank you so much for watching and I
[1:07:56] hope you benefited from that. If you'd
[1:07:58] like to help us create more spiritual
[1:08:00] content, then head over to our website
[1:08:02] nanaknam.org/donate
[1:08:05] and think about setting up a regular
[1:08:07] monthly donation. We're a 100% nonprofit
[1:08:11] organization. So all the donations that
[1:08:13] you give us go directly into the charity
[1:08:16] and that help us to create and share
[1:08:18] Gurmat spiritual wisdom.