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Inspiration

Trauma in Relationships: How PastWounds Affect Intimate Bonds

Thomas Huebl
Thomas Huebl
Mar 23, 2021
10 min read

Trauma is not the external event itself but the internal overwhelm response—a fragmentation and numbing that helped us survive but now manifests as reactivity, defensiveness, and shutdown in relationships. Thomas Hübl and Terry Real distinguish between catastrophic trauma and relational trauma (misattunement, repeated anger), explain how early childhood parts of us get activated when triggered by partners, and show that healing requires body awareness, regulation, and understanding that ancestral and intergenerational patterns live in our nervous systems and intimate bonds.

Read · 10 sections

What Is Trauma and Why Does It Hide in Relationships?

Trauma is commonly understood as a catastrophic event—a car accident, abuse, or war. But as both teachers clarify, trauma is far more subtle and pervasive. The core definition: trauma is not the overwhelming situation itself, but the internal process triggered by that overwhelming situation.

When we encounter overwhelming stress—whether as infants, bullied children, or adults—our nervous system splits. We become hyperaroused (super stressed, defensive, wanting to fight or flee) while simultaneously numbing the deepest pain through fragmentation. This split is an intelligent survival mechanism; thousands of years of human evolution built this protective response into our biology. However, if we don't process this fragmentation afterward, it creates symptoms that show up every time we become reactive, defensive, or shut down.

Terry Real adds a crucial distinction: beyond catastrophic trauma lies relational trauma—the damage done by misattunement between parent and child, or repeated anger in the household. These wounds don't threaten life and limb, yet they cause tremendous damage. Real also names active trauma (something that shouldn't be there: anger, control, abuse) and passive trauma (absence: loneliness, emotional neglect). Both overwhelm the nervous system.

How Does Your Partner Become the Projection Surface?

One of the most painful dynamics in intimate relationships: your partner activates wounds from your past. This happens because trauma lives in your body and in your automatic nervous system responses. When triggered, you don't experience your partner clearly; you experience them through the lens of your adaptive child—the young part of you that learned to survive early overwhelm.

The adaptive child part is distinct from the wounded child. The wounded child carries the pain; the adaptive child is your automatic response system—the ways you learned to manage threat. When your partner says something that echoes an old criticism, the adaptive child within you activates protective strategies: withdrawal, criticism back, compliance, or shutdown. You're no longer in present-time relationship; you're in a reenactment.

Hübl notes that when we become highly reactive or defensive, "our partners become the projection surface of stuff that happened way way earlier in our life." This isn't your partner's fault, and it isn't a sign of incompatibility. It's a sign that unresolved trauma is being triggered.

The Role of Body Awareness in Recognizing Trauma Triggers

Healing begins with a simple but overlooked step: connecting to your body. Hübl opens the masterclass by guiding participants to notice their breath, the physical sensations in their body, and "what part of you is aware that you feel your body right now?" This awareness is foundational because trauma lives in the body, not in logic or interpretation.

When you're triggered in relationship, your nervous system is in a state of mobilization—either fight/flight or freeze. Your thinking brain, the neocortex, goes offline. Slowing your exhalation and tuning into physical sensation activates the parasympathetic nervous system, the calming branch. This is not a moment of intellectual insight; it's a somatic reset.

The teachers emphasize that this is "a longer-term practice"—not an immediate fix but a progressive skill. Over time, the gap between trigger and response widens. You can notice the activation, feel it in your body, and choose a response rather than being run by the adaptive child's automatic programming.

Why Do Your Childhood Parts Get Activated in Adult Love?

A core insight: the wounded child and adaptive child parts of us are usually formed in the first moments of life through age four or five. These parts are highly developed despite their young age, because they had to be—they managed survival in an overwhelming environment. They learned the exact triggers, the exact tone of voice, the exact facial expression that meant danger.

In adult intimate relationships, your partner's behavior (even innocent behavior) can activate these parts. A partner who withdraws mirrors a parent who was emotionally unavailable. A partner who raises their voice echoes a parent who raged. The adaptive child doesn't distinguish between then and now; it only knows "this is what danger looks like."

Real emphasizes that "when we become highly triggered in a relationship, we often go back to the same argument with our partner compulsively and make it all better"—a temporary repair that doesn't address the underlying activation. The argument repeats because the trigger remains unprocessed.

How Does Ancestral Trauma Shape Your Intimate Life?

One of the most striking elements of this conversation is the discussion of intergenerational and ancestral trauma. Hübl's work on collective trauma shows that patterns can be handed down across generations. If your grandfather was a rager, that nervous system pattern—the way rage appears, escalates, and impacts those around him—can live in your body even if you never knew him.

This is not metaphorical. Trauma creates a particular nervous system signature: hypervigilance, rapid escalation, shutdown, or numbing. Children who grow up around a raging grandparent internalize that pattern. They may become rageful themselves, or they may become hyper-peaceful and conflict-avoidant—both are adaptations to the same ancestral wound.

The implication for relationships is profound: you are not just healing your own trauma; you are interrupting patterns that have lived in your family line for generations. When you choose to regulate your nervous system rather than rage at your partner, you break a chain.

What Is "The Big Lie" and How Does It Affect Relationships?

Both teachers reference undoing "the Big Lie"—the belief that a person can be either inferior or superior to another. This lie is foundational to many relationship conflicts. When you're triggered, the adaptive child often holds one of two positions: "I am not okay and they are" (submission, self-blame, codependency) or "I am okay and they are not" (contempt, criticism, superiority).

Neither position allows for genuine intimate contact. Intimacy requires what Hübl and Real call horizontal relating—two whole beings meeting as equals, each with their own wounds, each with their own adaptive parts, each deserving of respect.

The Big Lie creates what psychologists call complementary dynamics: one partner pursues while the other withdraws, one criticizes while the other submits. These are mirrors of the relationship each person had with their own caregivers. Breaking the Big Lie means recognizing that your partner is not inferior or superior; they are overwhelmed in their own way, running their own adaptive child, carrying their own ancestral wounds.

How Do You Know If a Trauma Response Is Running?

Hübl and Real demystify "normal" aspects of life that are actually trauma symptoms. For example: chronic conflict with a partner, difficulty being present during sex, inability to relax, perfectionism, people-pleasing, rage, numbness, or persistent anxiety. These aren't character flaws; they're nervous system responses.

Real notes that when you're in an activated state—what he calls "the wave that comes up"—your nervous system is in survival mode. The wave can last seconds, or it can persist for hours or days. During the wave, you're not capable of empathy, clarity, or intimacy. You're capable only of survival.

The key is learning to recognize the wave early: the tightness in your chest, the heat in your face, the urge to speak, the impulse to withdraw. These are the body's early signals that the adaptive child is about to take over.

What Does Regulation Actually Mean in a Relationship?

Both teachers use the term "regulation"—the ability to settle your nervous system so you're no longer in fight/flight/freeze. This is not the same as suppression or "being nice." Real describes a situation: a partner comes home stressed and says something sharp. Rather than defending or attacking back, the other partner might say, "I'm noticing something in you. What's going on?"

This response requires that the receiving partner is regulated enough to not take the sharp comment personally, to not activate their own adaptive child, and to stay curious about their partner. This is extraordinarily difficult when you're dealing with ancestral patterns and early childhood wounds. It requires what Real calls "clarity"—a state in which you can feel your own nervous system, sense your partner's state, and choose a response.

Hübl emphasizes that regulation is not something you have to do alone. The nervous system is relational; it was dysregulated in relationship (with a caregiver), and it heals in relationship (with a partner, therapist, or community). When your partner can remain calm and attuned while you're activated, it gradually teaches your nervous system that you're safe.

How Does Awareness Itself Become a Healing Resource?

Throughout the conversation, both teachers point to awareness—the part of you that observes your own internal process—as a primary tool. This is not awareness in the sense of "being aware of your problems." It's the witnessing awareness that Hübl references when he asks, "What is the part of you that is aware that you feel yourself?"

This awareness is distinct from your thoughts, your emotions, and your adaptive responses. It's what remains when everything else is activated. In Buddhist and contemplative traditions, this is sometimes called the "observing self" or "witness consciousness." In trauma therapy, it's the resource that allows you to feel triggered without being completely overwhelmed by the trigger.

When you're in intimate conflict and you can access this awareness, you create a gap—a tiny space between the trigger and your response. That gap is where choice lives. Without the gap, you're on automatic: the adaptive child reacts, the conflict escalates, the same argument happens again.

Where to Go from Here

If you recognize yourself in this conversation—cycles of conflict, difficulty being present with your partner, reactivity, or numbness—the first step is what Hübl recommends at the beginning of the masterclass: connect to your body. Not to fix anything. Simply to feel your breath, notice your sensations, and recognize that awareness that observes all of it.

Second, consider working with a trauma-informed therapist or coach, particularly one trained in approaches like Somatic Experiencing, Internal Family Systems, or Relational Life Therapy (Real's model). Healing doesn't happen through insight alone; it happens through nervous system regulation, which requires guidance and often requires relationship.

Third, begin to notice the patterns: What does your partner do that most reliably activates you? What does that remind you of from your childhood? What adaptive strategy does your younger self typically use? This is not blaming your past; it's recognizing the intelligence of survival mechanisms that are no longer serving you.

Finally, remember that this work is generational. When you heal your relationship to your own adaptive child and ancestral patterns, you interrupt a chain. You give your children—biological or otherwise—a different template for what intimate relating can be. That's the deeper significance of this work.

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Transcript

[0:01] hello everyone and welcome thomas hubel

[0:04] is a renowned teacher

[0:05] author and international facilitator who

[0:07] integrates the core insights

[0:09] of the great wisdom traditions with the

[0:11] discoveries of science

[0:13] he has worked with more than 100 000

[0:15] people worldwide

[0:16] through workshops multi-year training

[0:18] programs and online courses

[0:20] thomas is also the host of the annual

[0:23] collective trauma summit

[0:25] and the author of the book entitled

[0:27] healing collective trauma

[0:28] a process for integrating our

[0:30] intergenerational and cultural wounds

[0:33] you can find that on amazon or any

[0:35] bookseller that was released

[0:36] late last year now let me introduce

[0:39] terry terry real

[0:40] is the best-selling author and founder

[0:42] of the relational life institute

[0:45] uh which offers workshops for couples

[0:47] individuals and parents

[0:48] as as well as professional training

[0:50] programs for clinicians

[0:52] terry's work is known for its rigorous

[0:54] common sense approach

[0:56] which speaks to both men and women a

[0:58] proponent of full throttle marriage

[1:00] terry has been called the most

[1:01] innovative voice

[1:02] in thinking about and treating men and

[1:04] their relationships in the world today

[1:06] he's the author of multiple books

[1:08] including i don't want to talk about it

[1:10] overcoming the secret legacy of male

[1:12] depression and the new rules of marriage

[1:14] what you need to know to make love work

[1:17] lovely thank you

[1:19] okay and uh it's really a pleasure to be

[1:22] facilitating this

[1:23] um i both of these teachers are just

[1:26] extraordinary made such an impact in my

[1:28] life

[1:29] and i'm going to go ahead and turn it

[1:30] over to them for today's presentation

[1:32] on hidden effects of trauma in

[1:34] relationships and i think you're going

[1:36] to go ahead and start thomas so i'm

[1:37] going to hand it over to you

[1:39] yeah thank you richard first of all

[1:40] welcome terry i'm happy to be here with

[1:42] you

[1:43] thank you very much all right all right

[1:47] and welcome everybody here on this call

[1:49] so many people

[1:51] were interested or interested in this uh

[1:53] today so

[1:55] since we're coming from all over the

[1:58] world and we are coming into this call

[2:02] from different daily activities maybe

[2:05] we'll just take a moment

[2:06] since we talk about trauma trauma is

[2:09] being revealed through

[2:10] awareness and often

[2:14] the after effects of trauma don't allow

[2:17] us

[2:17] to get really centered properly in order

[2:21] to take care of it so we

[2:23] can take a minute to just arrive here in

[2:26] the room

[2:27] and the best way to arrive and center

[2:30] ourselves is

[2:31] our is our body and our breath so maybe

[2:36] we take a moment to just

[2:38] uh listen and feel into

[2:41] the way we are breathing or the way

[2:44] you're breathing right now

[2:47] [Music]

[2:49] and

[2:50] and just take a moment to see wherever

[2:53] you

[2:54] come from to join this class whatever is

[2:57] going on

[2:58] the level of activity the level of

[3:01] stress

[3:04] so the level of relaxation

[3:05] [Music]

[3:09] and your breath is the perfect guide

[3:12] to connect you to your body

[3:17] we're gonna speak later about okay

[3:19] what's the nature of trauma and

[3:22] how does trauma affect our lives and our

[3:24] intimate relationships

[3:27] trauma in itself lives very much in our

[3:31] body

[3:33] and and the healing of drama

[3:36] is also going through our body

[3:41] so when you take a moment and see when

[3:43] you connect to your body and

[3:47] just get a sense of your physical body

[3:52] the way you're sitting breathing

[4:10] and then for a moment just to slow down

[4:13] the way you

[4:14] exhale a little bit

[4:18] prolong your exhalation

[4:31] see if you just

[4:34] enjoy the sensations that you feel in

[4:37] your body

[4:39] there's a lot of movement

[4:42] going on

[4:43] [Music]

[4:46] inside of our bodies like pulsing

[4:48] streaming

[4:50] low sensations maybe also stress

[4:55] make some tensions it's a whole

[5:09] composition

[5:13] then for one moment to check in

[5:17] what is actually aware of the fact that

[5:20] you

[5:24] feel your body right now what is the

[5:27] part of you

[5:29] that is aware that you feel yourself

[5:37] it's the awareness right now

[5:43] feeling yourself

[6:02] right and then we gently

[6:05] open our eyes again or

[6:09] start with our conversation theory

[6:14] and i think the richest statement

[6:18] was a beautiful reminder of um

[6:23] also the nature of our intimate

[6:25] relationship

[6:26] so there is the ideal version of

[6:29] of our life and then there is the real

[6:31] version of our life

[6:34] interruptions come in when trigger

[6:37] moments come in

[6:38] and so that's what terry and i'm are

[6:40] going to talk about

[6:42] and the reason why i ask you to connect

[6:45] to your body is

[6:46] because what we are sharing today

[6:50] is something that's kind of a longer

[6:52] term practice

[6:54] it's something that we can get better at

[6:56] that

[6:57] many people who practice awareness

[6:59] practices see

[7:01] not an immediate jump but the

[7:04] long-term progression so that awareness

[7:07] and also the part that is aware of

[7:10] our internal process is an amazing

[7:13] resource

[7:14] same as our body awareness the way how

[7:17] we learn to center ourselves

[7:20] and just at the beginning

[7:23] a short introduction so when we hear

[7:27] trauma we often think of

[7:31] i don't know car accidents or massive

[7:34] abuse

[7:35] or we think of a war situation

[7:38] but actually trauma can be

[7:41] much more subtle than that and it's

[7:43] still traumatizing

[7:45] many of us in the early years of our

[7:47] lives

[7:48] went through overwhelming situations so

[7:51] trauma is

[7:52] an overwhelming situation

[7:56] but it's not the situation that we go

[7:59] through it's what that situation

[8:01] triggers in us so trauma is not the

[8:04] external event it's the

[8:06] internal process

[8:09] that's happening when we are going

[8:11] through a very overwhelming situation

[8:15] and what's happening when we are going

[8:16] through a very overwhelming situation

[8:18] is two things one is that we are super

[8:21] stressed

[8:23] and we we all might know moments when we

[8:26] come into

[8:27] high levels of stress also in intimate

[8:30] relationship

[8:31] arguments where we become very defensive

[8:34] and we either want to run away or we

[8:35] want to

[8:36] fight and when that exceeds and that

[8:39] stress level in a traumatizing situation

[8:41] exceeds that level so we become frozen

[8:46] which means that the real pain in us

[8:49] the deepest pain is actually mute

[8:54] and so one part of us is super stressed

[8:58] and another part in us like there is we

[9:01] there's kind of a fragmentation and

[9:04] we numb the part of us that is so

[9:06] overwhelmed

[9:08] in order to survive better and that's

[9:11] different for a child at age one

[9:15] or a child that's experiences bullying

[9:19] at school

[9:20] or somebody that has a car accident as a

[9:22] grown-up of course the intensity is

[9:24] different

[9:25] but the process inside is very similar

[9:29] and what what i want to point out at the

[9:32] beginning

[9:33] that when we talk about trauma we are

[9:36] talking that

[9:38] that internal process we are talking

[9:41] about something

[9:42] very intelligent that life learned over

[9:46] thousands and thousands of years

[9:48] we developed a pro and internal

[9:51] processes humanity

[9:52] all our ancestors going through

[9:54] overwhelming situations

[9:56] developed in a way a process that is

[9:58] alive in us

[10:00] that protects us so that trauma response

[10:03] is actually a very intelligent process

[10:06] but if we don't take care of it properly

[10:09] afterwards

[10:10] it creates a lot of symptoms and we see

[10:13] those symptoms

[10:14] every time we become highly reactive

[10:17] or defensive or shut down then

[10:21] we get triggered by our partners and

[10:23] then often our partners become the

[10:25] projection surface

[10:27] of stuff that happened way way earlier

[10:30] in our life and i know terry you're

[10:32] gonna

[10:33] continue from here so that's that's a

[10:35] basic

[10:36] definition of trauma that's it's it's

[10:39] very simplified now for

[10:41] the purpose of our conversation today

[10:44] but

[10:44] maybe terry you can take it from here

[10:46] and see how that relates to your love

[10:49] yeah great i i just want to say two

[10:51] things

[10:53] um when we think about trauma often we

[10:57] think about

[10:57] catastrophic life and limb kind of

[11:00] trauma which is real

[11:02] but as a therapist i also think about

[11:04] what i call relational trauma

[11:07] the kind of for example misattunement

[11:10] between parent and child or

[11:13] anger in the household that repeats over

[11:16] and over and over again it's not

[11:19] threatening life and limb but it does

[11:21] tremendous damage

[11:22] relational trauma and i also think about

[11:25] the difference between

[11:27] active trauma which is something that

[11:30] shouldn't be there

[11:31] anger control sexuality

[11:34] and passive trauma which is more of an

[11:37] absence

[11:38] you can be overwhelmed by a parent

[11:41] screaming at you

[11:42] you can also be overwhelmed with

[11:44] loneliness when a parent

[11:45] isn't with you so both of those things

[11:49] are traumatic

[11:50] when we think about trauma for the most

[11:52] part

[11:53] we think about the wound

[11:57] i call it the wounded child part of us

[12:00] which is very young when you work with

[12:02] it

[12:03] and uh usually about first moments of

[12:06] life to four or five years old

[12:09] and that part of us uh which is very

[12:12] back in the relational uh brain the

[12:15] emotional brain the limbic system and

[12:17] amygdala

[12:18] that that part of us is just reacting to

[12:21] what we've had that's the overwhelm the

[12:24] the wound

[12:24] in us is always overwhelmed

[12:28] between the wound and the wise adult

[12:32] part of us

[12:33] the uh prefrontal cortex the part of us

[12:36] that's here and now

[12:37] and thoughtful and deliberate is that

[12:40] adaptation

[12:41] that intelligent adaptation that you

[12:44] were talking about and

[12:47] in relationships what we often see

[12:51] is that the wound in

[12:55] us gets stimulated but as you say it's

[12:58] often cut off

[13:00] we don't feel the wound consciously

[13:03] or we can feel it for about 10 seconds

[13:06] and then

[13:06] the adaptive child part of us comes in

[13:09] to take over

[13:11] so what we see in relationships is

[13:13] rarely

[13:14] you know somebody says something and

[13:15] then you just fall apart

[13:17] what we see in relationships is somebody

[13:19] says something and then you fight or you

[13:22] flee

[13:22] or you fix or you freeze but you

[13:25] move into your characteristic

[13:28] adaptation that you repeat over and over

[13:31] and over again

[13:32] it's fueled by the wound

[13:35] but you don't see the wound you see the

[13:38] adaptation to the world

[13:41] just to underline what uh terry said now

[13:45] is that first of all attachment

[13:48] trauma is way more subtle so even

[13:51] people did it first might say no i'm not

[13:54] traumatized

[13:56] that i would have a second look at least

[13:59] because

[14:00] like we we might not have a major event

[14:03] in our life that we can classify as a

[14:05] biographical trauma

[14:07] but attachment trauma is usually neglect

[14:10] or

[14:11] chronic fight situations in the family

[14:14] systems between the parents

[14:16] that is a different level of trauma but

[14:19] it still creates a lot of

[14:21] pain inside and and the attachment

[14:25] process is

[14:26] very fragile it's very subtle it's very

[14:28] beautiful but it needs a lot of

[14:30] sensitivity and openness and relation

[14:33] and so let's talk a little bit about

[14:36] what

[14:37] is relating because we often talk about

[14:41] relation as if it's a thing

[14:44] there is a relation or there is a

[14:46] marriage it's like a thing it said

[14:49] but actually now when i look at terry

[14:51] when i look at you if i

[14:53] may so then when i look at terry

[14:56] i see a beautiful friend and

[15:00] but the terry and the friend that i see

[15:03] is happening in my brain

[15:07] now if the terry out there

[15:10] and the terry in my brain are the same

[15:16] that i don't know first of all i don't

[15:17] know i need to leave

[15:19] space that i see terry only to a certain

[15:23] extent

[15:24] given my own past where i am traumatized

[15:27] i can't see and feel him

[15:29] and here we are with the next point like

[15:32] there is

[15:32] seeing i see terry my perception is

[15:35] already in my central nervous system

[15:38] so the the language of relation is

[15:41] resonance

[15:42] and resonance needs feeling and sensing

[15:46] so when i see terry and feel terry

[15:49] it's like when you you know all the new

[15:52] streaming technologies

[15:54] like you watch a movie either you

[15:55] download your movie

[15:57] and you have it on your hard disk and

[15:59] then you watch the movie that you

[16:01] already stored on your computer let's

[16:03] say

[16:04] or the more modern version

[16:07] most probably is that you stream it on a

[16:09] streaming platform like now

[16:11] the fact that you can listen to us

[16:13] fluidly and it's

[16:15] not getting stuck every 10 seconds

[16:16] hopefully for you

[16:18] right now so that means that the data

[16:21] is streaming well relation or relating

[16:25] is data streaming and

[16:28] so i can update terry in me

[16:32] moment to moment through data streaming

[16:34] which means through feeling him

[16:36] if i feel him i have a moment to moment

[16:39] update like a camera that makes many

[16:41] photos so it becomes a movie

[16:44] if i if i get triggered by terry and i

[16:47] withdraw

[16:48] i don't feel him anymore and then

[16:52] terry in thomas gets old

[16:55] i'm looking at an image in myself not

[16:58] anymore the resonant

[16:59] updated version of terry

[17:02] and that's what we often see because

[17:04] trauma in many ways

[17:06] is being inflicted through inappropriate

[17:10] relations

[17:11] through relations that were already hurt

[17:13] before

[17:14] and let's say our parents were

[17:16] traumatized we are growing up in a

[17:18] traumatized

[17:19] family system and of course a part of

[17:22] that gets

[17:22] transferred to us so trauma

[17:26] her is being inflicted through

[17:28] inappropriate relation

[17:30] and it creates a hurt in the process of

[17:33] relating

[17:35] because relating means i feel

[17:38] you feeling me i feel

[17:41] you and how you feel me that's the music

[17:45] of relation that's a ding

[17:46] dong that's and when we hit trauma

[17:52] and so that is very important because

[17:56] often we think of relation as a thing

[17:59] as something but actually what really is

[18:02] relating is a data stream online between

[18:05] me and my partner between me and my kids

[18:09] and between me

[18:10] and colleagues at work i feel you

[18:12] feeling me

[18:13] is the basic attachment music and that's

[18:16] called new reception

[18:18] and your reception is the basic

[18:21] uh sense our body feels if another

[18:25] person

[18:26] feels us so if i feel you

[18:30] your nervous system picks up on me

[18:32] feeling you

[18:33] and that creates a deeper sense of

[18:35] safety if i don't feel you

[18:37] your nervous system picks up on that too

[18:40] without your conscious minds

[18:42] even being necessarily aware of it and

[18:44] it creates already a bit of

[18:47] stress and especially with our kids and

[18:50] also with us

[18:51] when we were kids that sensing i feel

[18:54] you feeling me

[18:55] is the basic feeling of relational

[18:58] safety

[18:59] and so i wanted to speak a little bit

[19:02] about

[19:02] because trauma hurts that process and

[19:05] often when we are triggered we can't

[19:07] feel our partner anymore because we feel

[19:09] walled off or retracted and maybe you

[19:11] want to speak a little bit to

[19:13] how that might look like in in our daily

[19:16] intimate relationship

[19:17] experience yeah exactly thomas um

[19:21] i feel you feeling me i love that phrase

[19:23] that is what intimacy is it's an

[19:26] interpenetration inter-subjectivity

[19:29] you say something it goes into me

[19:32] it kicks around with what i've got i

[19:34] react to it and then i say something

[19:36] that goes into you

[19:37] and it's a living real time process

[19:41] trauma triggering freezes that process

[19:46] and the another way of saying it is when

[19:49] you're

[19:49] in the flow of the open system i feel

[19:52] you

[19:52] feeling me you're in the prefrontal

[19:55] cortex you're in

[19:56] the most mature part of your brain

[19:58] you're in the wise adult

[20:00] part of you triggering means that you're

[20:04] going to slip into your adaptive child

[20:06] and when you're in the adaptive child

[20:09] part

[20:10] one of the bitter pills to swallow is

[20:12] the adaptive child part of us

[20:14] is not interested in i feel you

[20:17] feeling me the adaptive child part of us

[20:20] is interested in one thing

[20:22] self-preservation and so

[20:25] when i get trauma triggered and then

[20:27] when i slip into my usual

[20:30] adaptation to my trauma i stop

[20:33] feeling you and i'm referencing some

[20:36] image that i have of you from way uh

[20:40] back we we speak about this as implicit

[20:42] memory

[20:43] i have an implicit negative expectation

[20:46] of how you're going to be with me

[20:49] not based on what's in front of me but

[20:51] based on what's behind me

[20:53] i you know i've heard you say that in

[20:56] relationships the greatest gift we give

[20:58] each other is our presence

[21:00] and you can't be present with somebody

[21:02] if you're not

[21:03] in the presence and what happens with

[21:06] trauma is that our history overtakes the

[21:09] present

[21:10] and we are back there you don't remember

[21:13] trauma you relive it

[21:15] and so what happens is a kind of in

[21:18] relationships is what i call mutual

[21:20] triggering

[21:22] if one of you gets triggered and the

[21:24] other one holds firm

[21:26] you're in pretty good shape i i get to

[21:28] say everybody in a relationship

[21:30] gets to go crazy but you have to take

[21:32] turns so if

[21:34] one of you is off and the other one

[21:36] stays put that's a good day for you

[21:39] uh if both of you go off then that's

[21:42] when

[21:42] the difficult uh vicious cycle repeats

[21:46] and keeps going on

[21:48] the way mutual triggering works is so

[21:51] for example

[21:52] my wife belinda and i both come from

[21:54] fighting families we both come from

[21:55] fairly violent

[21:56] critical families belinda walks in the

[21:59] door

[22:00] and she goes i can't believe what a mess

[22:01] it is in here

[22:03] i immediately get triggered my wounded

[22:06] child gets triggered

[22:08] i'm like three or four years old and my

[22:10] big father is standing there yelling at

[22:12] me the way he did

[22:13] i'm no longer talking to belinda i'm

[22:15] that little boy talking to this big

[22:18] towering figure my ad

[22:21] i have about two seconds worth of

[22:23] tolerance for those feelings of

[22:24] helplessness

[22:25] and i get pumped up into my adaptation

[22:28] which is fight

[22:30] now i can't believe it you walk in and

[22:32] you do this

[22:33] now when i get critical of belinda guess

[22:35] what happens to her

[22:37] her wounded child gets trauma triggered

[22:39] she's that little girl facing her

[22:41] screaming mother

[22:42] not me and her adaptation

[22:46] her adaptive child comes in to take over

[22:48] which is fight

[22:50] where symmetrical couple fight me's

[22:52] fight and there we are

[22:54] when you're in these kinds of vicious

[22:56] circles

[22:57] your its adaptive child meets adaptive

[23:00] child

[23:01] the two of you the real adults can sit

[23:04] down and have a beer

[23:05] because they're duking it out it's got

[23:07] nothing to do with

[23:08] you anymore and so the first

[23:11] skill i believe the proto skill

[23:16] i call relational mindfulness and i'm

[23:18] sure you're going to have a lot to say

[23:19] about this thomas

[23:21] but the first skill is and this can be

[23:23] cultivated

[23:25] is that you take a breath you realize

[23:29] that you've been

[23:30] triggered uh and you bring some

[23:33] br i've heard you say i love this line

[23:36] of yours

[23:38] in relationships urgency is our enemy

[23:41] and breath

[23:42] is our friend you take that breath

[23:45] and you get yourself centered in your

[23:48] body

[23:49] and you bring yourself out of that

[23:51] triggered adaptive child

[23:53] back into the wise adult part of you

[23:56] i call this in real life remembering

[23:59] love

[24:01] you you move out of the adversarial

[24:04] me versus you of the adaptive child

[24:07] into the abundant us the whole

[24:11] of the relationship that the wise adult

[24:14] can appreciate you remember that the

[24:17] person you're speaking to is not your

[24:19] enemy

[24:20] but someone you love or

[24:23] said differently you remember the whole

[24:26] you remember the ecology

[24:27] our relationships are like our

[24:29] biospheres

[24:30] and you remember that this is not a

[24:33] win-lose zero-sum

[24:34] game there's enough here for everybody

[24:37] if we can keep centered in the hole

[24:40] which means getting centered in our own

[24:42] selves

[24:43] that's beautiful terry also that when we

[24:46] come back

[24:47] we we often i often say in the in the

[24:50] healing work that

[24:51] in doubt come back to the closest circle

[24:54] of intimacy which is your self-contact

[24:57] you feeling yourself so if you get

[25:00] triggered in life or if you get unclear

[25:02] or whatever

[25:03] so i take a breath and i see if i can

[25:06] reconnect to my body

[25:08] and if i can practice that at least five

[25:11] minutes every day in the morning

[25:13] i mean the longer the better but five

[25:16] minutes

[25:17] my breath is my best friend or one of my

[25:20] best friends because it's with me from

[25:22] day one

[25:23] of the birth and it's wired in my

[25:27] nervous system

[25:28] ever since so when i'm breathing i can

[25:31] get access

[25:32] to my body contact and my body is the

[25:36] grounding of stress

[25:37] as you said before like when trauma gets

[25:40] triggered

[25:41] there are few things that usually come

[25:43] with it

[25:45] i feel separate there's me

[25:48] and there is you there's not anymore us

[25:51] me and you are over there before we were

[25:54] together in a flow

[25:56] it's very important flow states are

[25:58] relational

[25:59] exchange me here you over there

[26:02] there is usually separation and that

[26:04] separation

[26:06] is an illusion but it's so true in that

[26:09] moment

[26:09] because everything in me believes in the

[26:12] trauma fragmentation

[26:13] it comes with feelings of the past like

[26:16] fear or

[26:17] shame or anger or other

[26:20] emotional sensations or sensations of

[26:23] numbness

[26:25] so that i simply don't feel myself

[26:27] anymore

[26:28] and when that happens i need to come

[26:31] back to a place that i can

[26:32] sense and feel in myself and then from

[26:35] me

[26:36] to you because trauma has another

[26:40] um uh symptom

[26:43] that it comes with that is i'm speeding

[26:46] up

[26:46] i'm getting really stressed i'm getting

[26:48] fast if i'm getting fast i need to slow

[26:50] down

[26:51] and trauma comes with a sense of

[26:53] scarcity

[26:54] every time we hit trauma it feels like

[26:56] something is not enough

[26:58] there's not enough for me and there's

[26:59] not enough for you there's not enough

[27:01] time there's not enough space there's

[27:03] not enough something

[27:04] and and when we sense that we know this

[27:08] is a symptom it's not the trauma itself

[27:11] as you said there the trauma itself is

[27:13] hidden in our unconscious

[27:15] most of the time but the sensations that

[27:18] come from the place

[27:19] are very very strong because what we

[27:21] experienced at that time

[27:23] really overwhelmed us and we become

[27:26] defensive

[27:27] and those defense mechanisms were

[27:29] intelligent functions that

[27:31] how that was the best that we could do

[27:33] as a kid

[27:34] or at that time to help ourselves and of

[27:37] course today

[27:38] it it creates a lot of symptoms in our

[27:40] relationships

[27:42] and and maybe the last part it is

[27:45] something

[27:46] very tiny but super important

[27:50] i said before me being related to terry

[27:54] right now means me feeling him

[27:59] and when when we hit the trauma in us

[28:03] since

[28:04] in the moment of traumatization

[28:06] something is so overwhelming that we

[28:08] shut down a part of ourselves

[28:10] usually that bridge me being able to

[28:14] feel myself and to feel my surrounding

[28:19] is being hurt or broken in that moment

[28:22] when the trauma gets triggered

[28:24] then i can't anymore feel him and

[28:27] me at the same time and i think when we

[28:30] notice that we need a practice

[28:33] and i remember when we

[28:36] did our last course last year you said

[28:39] something very powerful terry you said

[28:41] that you you spoke about the moment with

[28:43] your wife with belinda

[28:45] and you said there was a moment where

[28:47] you

[28:48] felt either i step

[28:51] into the reactive part or i can stay and

[28:55] witness that reactive part but not go

[28:58] down

[28:58] that route and and that moment where

[29:03] like a choice comes back in the when the

[29:06] reactivity

[29:07] kicks in and we have a freedom

[29:11] to not choose that route that's a very

[29:15] powerful function for most of us

[29:18] it comes through a practice and i know

[29:21] you

[29:21] practiced that in your life for many

[29:23] many years

[29:24] so that a moment of choice where it

[29:27] seems like we don't have a choice

[29:29] we go back to the same argument with our

[29:32] partner again

[29:32] and we go back to the same argument

[29:35] again so

[29:37] at that moment to have a choice is

[29:39] really

[29:40] very very a very powerful fruit

[29:44] of an ongoing practice and i think

[29:47] that's what you also

[29:48] speak a lot about i think that's right

[29:50] the hallmark of the

[29:52] adaptive child part of us is that it's

[29:54] automatic

[29:55] it's very fast knee-jerk fight

[29:59] flight fix or freeze are

[30:02] the usual and perhaps those listening

[30:04] could take a moment

[30:06] and just sort of out yourself to

[30:09] yourself

[30:09] when you're in that reactive state

[30:12] do you tend to fight do you tend to flee

[30:15] and you can flee while sitting six

[30:18] inches in front of somebody that's

[30:20] called

[30:20] stonewalling do you try and fix it

[30:23] compulsively and make it all better

[30:25] or do you freeze any of those responses

[30:29] are automatic

[30:30] the blessing the grace comes in

[30:33] when you can take a breath realize that

[30:36] you're triggered

[30:38] and choose another path it's

[30:41] only the adult part of us that can do

[30:44] that

[30:45] the adaptive channel part of us is too

[30:47] automatic so we have to get a little bit

[30:49] centered

[30:50] and then make a different choice

[30:53] i i always wanted to make a t-shirt for

[30:56] our institute and on the front it would

[30:58] say something like

[30:59] relational living and on the back it

[31:01] would say i

[31:02] choose door b i know

[31:06] door a with belinda getting angry at her

[31:09] i know exactly what lays behind that

[31:12] door i've been

[31:12] through that door a million times in

[31:15] this

[31:16] moment and the work of relationships is

[31:18] in

[31:19] the moment not day by day in this moment

[31:22] right now

[31:23] am i going to choose reactivity and the

[31:26] usual

[31:27] or am i going to get centered and do

[31:29] something deliberate

[31:31] and different i choose door b

[31:34] and more and more as we do this practice

[31:37] both in our lives and also i want to say

[31:40] on the pillow i'll say in

[31:41] a moment about that as we make this

[31:44] work as we strengthen these muscles

[31:47] then dorby becomes more and more

[31:50] available to us

[31:52] and for the practitioners who are

[31:54] listening to us

[31:55] the time that you do spend in meditation

[31:58] in the morning or whatever

[32:00] uh is a kind of a big version of what

[32:03] i'm talking about

[32:04] and when you're facing your partner and

[32:07] they're

[32:07] upset with you and you have that i call

[32:10] it whoosh

[32:10] the w-h-o-o-s-a that wave that comes up

[32:14] of reactivity

[32:15] the time that you spent meditating will

[32:18] be in

[32:19] in your favor now because you're having

[32:22] a moment of the same kind of attentional

[32:24] practice

[32:25] uh but it's in real time with live ammo

[32:27] with your partner

[32:29] so i i don't see the two as

[32:32] contradictory they actually feed on each

[32:34] other and support each other

[32:37] right and and another great resource

[32:41] that we mentioned before is simply the

[32:43] capacity to

[32:44] feel the life parts of our body like the

[32:47] resources in our body that can help us

[32:50] to

[32:50] find a self-contact in the moment to

[32:53] slow down

[32:55] and to regulate ourselves and then

[32:58] um and then i want to talk a little bit

[33:01] about

[33:02] because usually you know many people

[33:04] might think oh my body is

[33:06] maybe 40 50 60 70 years old but

[33:11] in fact my body is hundreds of thousands

[33:15] of years and even millions of years old

[33:18] because that's the time

[33:19] that life needed to develop

[33:23] the model that comes with our lifetime

[33:27] so what the emotional system the

[33:30] physical systems our organs

[33:32] our thinking has been developed over a

[33:35] very long time through our ancestors and

[33:37] our ancestors went through trauma

[33:40] and we are not the first ones that are

[33:42] healing trauma so

[33:44] multiple traditions in the past plus

[33:46] genetic recombination

[33:48] and and different family systems like

[33:51] we got traumatized and we already healed

[33:54] drama in the past

[33:56] so even if we didn't call it that way

[33:59] and

[34:00] and so now here we are with all that

[34:03] wisdom

[34:04] in our being like our bodies our

[34:08] emotional systems our self-healing

[34:10] mechanisms our nervous systems are

[34:12] highly developed

[34:13] over a very long period of time and we

[34:17] have

[34:17] access to that wisdom

[34:20] because we are not the first ones living

[34:22] and we are not the first ones

[34:24] hitting relationship difficulties so

[34:27] there are the resources that come

[34:29] through the ancestral stream

[34:31] to us and then of course like

[34:35] if my parents or my grandparents or my

[34:38] great-grandparents

[34:39] were traumatized and that trauma kind of

[34:42] jumps

[34:43] generations and those tendencies we call

[34:47] them tendencies because

[34:48] we didn't i didn't experience the trauma

[34:51] of my

[34:52] grandmother going through the second

[34:54] world war

[34:56] but i might feel the after effects

[34:59] of the stress and what my grandfather's

[35:03] trauma in the second world war i might

[35:05] feel the stress or maybe the anxiety or

[35:08] maybe

[35:08] other aspects in my own experience

[35:13] and so the ancestral

[35:16] transmission of trauma is very important

[35:18] too because we are sitting

[35:20] we grew up in a family system that had

[35:22] already tendencies that wasn't a white

[35:24] sheet of paper

[35:26] that had already many tendencies and

[35:28] imprints that we grew up in

[35:30] as well as our society around us our

[35:33] teachers

[35:34] and and different circles of society

[35:37] and what i'm saying is that in the

[35:40] process of

[35:41] healing ourselves

[35:45] not only when we heal something in

[35:47] ourselves

[35:48] we actually also send a ripple effect

[35:51] back in time

[35:52] into our ancestral tree

[35:56] but we also

[35:59] sometimes try to deny

[36:03] no i don't want to look back and examine

[36:07] our ancestors and like my grandparents

[36:10] and

[36:10] great-grandparents lives because i think

[36:13] it's too much for me and i

[36:15] i'm just looking forward but everything

[36:18] that i deny in my past

[36:22] it's only the past because it's split

[36:24] off otherwise it would be integrated

[36:26] life

[36:26] here every time we integrate trauma it

[36:29] becomes learning

[36:30] every time we leave trauma unexamined

[36:34] examined we we actually carry that past

[36:38] with us

[36:39] and of course the examination and the

[36:42] the the integration process needs to be

[36:46] appropriate

[36:48] but denying the past just keeps it

[36:51] living

[36:52] it doesn't disappear on its own it needs

[36:54] us that's why

[36:55] it's also part of our purpose our life

[36:57] purpose is not only our career

[37:00] and where we are going to and how

[37:02] creative we are

[37:03] our life purpose is also integrating the

[37:06] legacy

[37:08] that has been handed off to us so what

[37:10] our what our ancestors didn't take care

[37:12] of

[37:12] is now in our hands and and we are

[37:15] walking with that and we can either

[37:17] either pass it on as well

[37:19] or we can say okay that's part of my

[37:22] life and that's part of my life purpose

[37:25] and

[37:25] i'm going to be the one that is going to

[37:28] look

[37:29] i'm going to look step by step as i can

[37:33] with the support that i have available

[37:35] to

[37:36] examine that and to stop that process of

[37:39] passing it on to the next generations

[37:42] and maybe terry

[37:43] maybe you want to speak a little bit

[37:45] about that too about the

[37:46] ancestral transmission that uh it didn't

[37:49] start just with us

[37:51] as a family therapist i'd learned uh

[37:54] from my early training about what we

[37:56] call multi-generational

[37:58] uh legacies you know the

[38:01] grandfather was a rager

[38:03] great-grandfather was a rager

[38:04] father was a rager the sister marries a

[38:07] rager

[38:08] how these things get passed on and what

[38:11] i

[38:12] came to realize is that the actual

[38:14] mechanism of the transmission

[38:16] is trauma like my father was

[38:20] a violent and when he was being violent

[38:23] toward me

[38:24] he was both disempowering me on the

[38:27] receiving end

[38:28] i was shamed and made small but he was

[38:31] also transmitting a message that this is

[38:33] what a grown man looks like when he gets

[38:35] angry

[38:36] and this is okay these legacies

[38:39] of both shame and grandiosity both

[38:42] inferiority and

[38:44] superiority get passed on generation to

[38:46] generation

[38:47] in fact i have a quote if i may quote

[38:50] myself

[38:51] that they say it's pretentious to do

[38:53] that but i i always quote this quote

[38:56] it's from my first book i don't want to

[38:58] talk about it

[39:00] family pathology rolls

[39:03] from generation to generation like a

[39:07] fire

[39:07] in the woods taking down everything in

[39:10] its path

[39:11] until one person in one generation

[39:14] has the courage to turn and face the

[39:17] flames

[39:19] that person brings peace to his

[39:21] ancestors

[39:23] and spares the children that follow i

[39:25] think that's exactly what you were

[39:27] just doing beautiful work and when i

[39:30] work with people i i often tell them

[39:33] this work is not just for you this work

[39:36] is for the generations

[39:38] um there's a couple's therapist who asks

[39:41] people to bring in pictures of their

[39:42] kids

[39:43] and lines up the pictures of the kids

[39:45] and as the couple works on their

[39:47] relationship

[39:48] she says just remember they're watching

[39:52] so our past and our future is combining

[39:55] in this moment of now and in this moment

[39:58] of now

[39:59] what am i going to choose door a or door

[40:03] b and door b is healing for me

[40:06] my children the generations that follow

[40:09] and my ancestors

[40:10] came behind yeah and that's literally

[40:13] like that's so beautiful

[40:15] like also how you uh framed it with the

[40:18] fire and the woods that because it also

[40:21] feels like that whenever we feel that

[40:23] pain

[40:24] what we want to do is get away from it

[40:27] that's also the the nature of all our

[40:29] protection mechanisms is to

[40:31] feel less pain and that's very

[40:33] intelligent

[40:34] in moments where we got really

[40:36] overwhelmed but

[40:38] i think we can support each other and

[40:40] and you know we have some superpowers

[40:43] one superpower is present and

[40:46] presence and the present like really

[40:49] feeling you

[40:50] right now is a superpower and

[40:53] i often say when um let's say

[40:57] a small child comes to you and says

[40:59] territory

[41:01] uh i'm really scared and then let's say

[41:03] you say

[41:05] either you say oh you don't have to be

[41:07] scared there's no there's no danger

[41:10] but what you did is you created you

[41:13] devalued the emotional need of the child

[41:17] you gave the child a rational answer

[41:20] when it came with an emotional

[41:21] request and you created the distance the

[41:24] other

[41:25] is a child comes in and says territory

[41:28] i'm really scared and you say you turn

[41:30] to the child and you say yes i feel

[41:34] you're scared come to me

[41:38] and let's have a look together what's

[41:41] the difference

[41:43] i create i felt my child i feel you

[41:47] feeling me so i feel you i create

[41:50] emotional resonance i feel my child is

[41:53] stressed

[41:54] and scared so i say i create emotional

[41:58] resonance

[41:58] before i give any rational answer i meet

[42:01] the emotional need

[42:04] it creates emotional resonance the child

[42:06] can come

[42:07] with its usb plug to the grown-up person

[42:11] or to your grown-up

[42:12] nervous system plug into your heart

[42:16] into your vehicle nervous system and in

[42:18] that moment

[42:20] co-regulation starts to happen attack

[42:23] and

[42:23] and the child can land down regulated

[42:27] stress

[42:29] and then you say okay let's have a look

[42:33] what's really happening and then

[42:34] rational leadership

[42:37] comes in rational leadership or parental

[42:40] guidance or that's also true for any

[42:42] leadership function in the world

[42:44] needs to come in but not when the

[42:46] nervous system of the other person is

[42:48] like that

[42:48] but when there is co-regulation and

[42:52] a certain sense of regulation in the

[42:54] nervous system then

[42:56] the the rational uh guidance

[42:59] is very very helpful and it needs to

[43:01] come in but not

[43:04] uh by creating an emotional distance

[43:07] and i think that that kind of relational

[43:10] resonance

[43:12] is one of our super powers too so

[43:15] as you said beautifully before if one of

[43:17] us one of the partners has still enough

[43:19] resources available

[43:21] to feel the partner when the partner

[43:24] gets triggered that's amazing

[43:26] because then there is still there is a

[43:28] progress possible because we are not

[43:30] traumatized on the same place so when

[43:32] one gets triggered the other one is

[43:34] in a pretty good shape that's that's

[43:36] great but

[43:37] you also said and i want to highlight

[43:39] that when both

[43:41] carry trauma on the same level and there

[43:44] are not enough resources

[43:46] we responsibility means

[43:49] not that we have to do it alone but then

[43:52] somebody needs to come to you

[43:54] or someone like you and say listen we

[43:57] really need help

[43:59] because if we don't have the resources

[44:01] in the system we

[44:02] can't go further on that level because

[44:05] the resources are like the water in the

[44:07] river

[44:08] if there is still water carrying the

[44:10] weight

[44:11] of an object in the river so the the

[44:14] object will keep flowing in the river

[44:16] but if the object is too heavy or there

[44:19] is not enough water in the river it's

[44:21] gonna get stuck

[44:22] so some couples might get stuck by not

[44:25] bringing in the support that's needed

[44:28] to resolve that tight

[44:31] part because both both don't have enough

[44:33] water

[44:34] available on that level of their

[44:36] development

[44:37] and so i think i want to just highlight

[44:39] what you said before because there's a

[44:41] meaning

[44:42] that reaching out is important if

[44:45] in the system of the relation of the

[44:47] couple it's not possible to resolve a

[44:49] certain pattern and it's

[44:51] it's going to continue like that i think

[44:53] that's exactly right

[44:55] um we're going to break for questions in

[44:57] a minute i just wanted to say that same

[45:00] um healing resonance

[45:03] that you describe so beautifully between

[45:05] an adult and a child

[45:08] we're going to do this in the course

[45:09] we're going to do some live work with

[45:11] with folks but in terms of our own

[45:15] healing you can bring that same

[45:17] resonance to the less mature parts of

[45:19] ourselves to the wounded child

[45:21] and adaptive child parts of ourselves

[45:24] and in our

[45:25] work we often extract those we personify

[45:29] those

[45:29] younger parts of ourselves and you can

[45:33] be

[45:33] empathic and compassionate to those

[45:35] young parts of you

[45:36] one of the things i say thomas is you

[45:38] don't meet

[45:40] harshness with harshness there's nothing

[45:43] that harshness does

[45:44] that loving firmness doesn't do better

[45:48] so if it's an adaptive child that's

[45:50] creating havoc through anger or control

[45:53] yes you need to set limits but firmly

[45:56] and

[45:56] lovingly these are young parts of

[45:59] yourself

[46:00] and you can learn some self-compassion

[46:03] even as you

[46:04] deal with these parts beautiful

[46:07] yeah maybe we receive if

[46:10] richard has some questions that came in

[46:13] so maybe we can spend the last 10

[46:15] minutes

[46:16] looking at questions great

[46:20] hi everybody uh we have a ton of just

[46:23] amazing questions i always feel when i'm

[46:25] on these calls i'm on the time warp

[46:26] with thomas and terry here

[46:30] because it's so engaging uh so let me uh

[46:33] we'll just jump into some of the

[46:35] questions here we'll probably just have

[46:36] time for a queue

[46:37] a few a quick reminder thomas and tara

[46:40] are going to be doing an ongoing course

[46:42] this is going to be over 10 hours of

[46:43] material

[46:44] that's going to start on april 15th and

[46:46] we will send you an email

[46:50] and if you're an alumni from last year's

[46:53] course

[46:54] you'll get a different deal because it

[46:55] includes the course you did last year or

[46:58] that they did last year or you can email

[47:01] us at

[47:03] onlinecoursesupport thomasfubul.com

[47:06] or you can also go to the website

[47:09] healing dot com and you can get the full

[47:11] uh list of the course

[47:13] this year it's really incredible uh

[47:14] can't wait for that okay

[47:16] first question comes from vanessa and i

[47:19] think it's a really good question

[47:21] that has been asked numerous times in

[47:23] the q a

[47:24] will anything change in your

[47:26] relationship if your partner doesn't

[47:28] identify except his own trauma

[47:30] he went through growing up yeah you know

[47:33] um if you don't face your history you

[47:36] tend to repeat it

[47:38] uh there's a saying in a a hurt people

[47:41] hurt people

[47:42] and this is how the transmission keeps

[47:45] going uh

[47:45] forward so if someone denies their

[47:49] trauma

[47:50] the odds are it will get stimulated

[47:53] they they won't have that resonance

[47:56] between themselves and

[47:58] these parts of themselves and they'll

[48:00] the the adaptive child will take over

[48:02] and

[48:03] make trouble for you in your uh in your

[48:06] relationship

[48:07] that's not your problem however

[48:11] it's your partner's problem and uh

[48:14] there's only so much you can do to try

[48:16] and control

[48:17] the situation you stay focused

[48:20] on your practice and uh if your partner

[48:24] does

[48:24] well uh in response to your practice

[48:27] that's a beautiful day for both of you

[48:30] if your partner as thomas was saying

[48:31] earlier if your partner is

[48:34] it goes off the rails and you don't jump

[48:37] into the mud pit with them

[48:39] you you you will get the whoosh you will

[48:42] get

[48:42] adaptive child triggered but you take a

[48:44] breath and get re-centered

[48:46] that's a mixed day for the relationship

[48:48] not a great day for your partner but a

[48:51] splendid day for you i call this

[48:53] relational

[48:54] integrity you work on your own practice

[48:57] on your side of the street

[48:59] and feel the satisfaction of that

[49:02] you may not always get the partner you

[49:04] want but you can get the you

[49:07] that you're searching for

[49:10] right and and beautiful and just uh

[49:14] maybe to add to that and i think if if

[49:16] you do the practice that terry

[49:18] suggested now then there there is

[49:22] like we it looks like often that our

[49:25] partner doesn't

[49:26] xyz but deeper down

[49:30] i often say you know in the first moment

[49:33] of

[49:33] getting into a relation

[49:36] all the information was there but we

[49:39] weren't fully there

[49:41] the relationship or the marriage is the

[49:44] time to find out

[49:46] what we didn't see in the first moment

[49:49] so

[49:49] it means that it reveals itself

[49:52] over you know after we fell in love and

[49:55] after the hormones

[49:56] slowly subside and the real relationship

[50:00] shows up then we see wow there are parts

[50:03] that are

[50:03] less flowing than we thought at the

[50:05] beginning but

[50:07] this is also where my trauma and

[50:11] my wife's trauma are connected

[50:14] so if one partner keeps healing and

[50:17] healing and healing

[50:18] so then first of all as terry you said

[50:21] beautifully then there are more

[50:22] resources

[50:23] and the internal state of that person

[50:26] is is growing and then it will show

[50:30] itself how that relation will either

[50:32] reorganize itself

[50:33] into a new relation and will also create

[50:36] a relational

[50:38] growth impulse for the partner or maybe

[50:41] at a certain level

[50:42] that relation can't continue because the

[50:45] the developmental gaps are simply going

[50:48] to be too strong

[50:50] but important is often my trauma and my

[50:53] partner's trauma

[50:54] have a kind of a lawyer agreement

[50:58] and as long as we don't decipher that

[51:00] agreement that we signed unconsciously

[51:02] on that level

[51:03] there is something that might

[51:06] be stuck and it's through the healing

[51:09] process we are actually finding out what

[51:11] that was

[51:12] and then there is a reorganization of

[51:14] the relationship anyway happening

[51:16] yeah a friend of mine esther perel says

[51:20] i expect to have six marriages in my

[51:22] lifetime and i hope they are all to the

[51:24] same man

[51:25] [Laughter]

[51:28] it's part of the slow huh that you

[51:30] transform

[51:31] and that challenge is the partner in the

[51:33] relationship then the relationship

[51:35] transforms to be big enough to hold your

[51:38] growth

[51:39] and that's what makes it alive and

[51:41] exciting thanks thank you

[51:43] lovely awesome that's great here's

[51:45] another question from

[51:46] nora and she's asking how do i

[51:50] distinguish a disharmonious

[51:51] relationship due to trauma from simply a

[51:54] relationship that doesn't fit or isn't

[51:56] meant to be

[51:57] and there was a few other questions

[51:58] around that same kind of theme

[52:02] terry you want to go again i think i

[52:05] think

[52:05] it's in the i i don't think it matters

[52:09] uh because if you're stuck what that

[52:12] if you're not congruent what that means

[52:14] is

[52:15] that your partner's adaptive child

[52:18] doesn't work very well with yours

[52:19] because

[52:20] that's where the rubber hits the road uh

[52:23] or

[52:24] that one of you is moving beyond the

[52:26] adaptive child to the wise adult and the

[52:28] other one is just playing it out over

[52:30] and over and over again

[52:32] so i i don't think it matters whether

[52:35] it's a kind of

[52:36] constitutional mismatch or a

[52:38] trauma-driven

[52:39] uh mismatch the question is what can you

[52:43] do about it

[52:44] okay if you change your behavior on your

[52:47] end of the seesaw

[52:48] uh does that change things between the

[52:50] two of you

[52:51] if that change is workable you've got a

[52:54] good relationship

[52:55] if no matter how much you change on your

[52:57] side your partner stays stuck

[53:00] then you have to really take a good look

[53:02] at why you're there

[53:03] get them out first and then take a look

[53:07] yeah and then i and i think what you

[53:09] said now is very important we don't have

[53:12] to struggle alone you know there's

[53:14] nowhere written in the universe

[53:16] you need to resolve everything alone or

[53:19] we need to resolve things alone

[53:21] but there is since we are all embedded

[53:24] in a web of life

[53:25] and in a much wider collective

[53:28] intelligence making use of that

[53:30] collective intelligence in moments when

[53:33] we feel under-resourced

[53:34] is very important that's actually able

[53:36] to respond

[53:38] if we're stuck with each other we need

[53:40] to bring

[53:41] a resource in that helps us to keep on

[53:45] moving

[53:45] because what feels so painful often if

[53:48] we feel we are not moving together

[53:50] anywhere

[53:51] the fact that it's uncomfortable there's

[53:53] a discernment in my understanding

[53:55] between moving along

[53:58] and struggling and struggling on the

[54:02] same place

[54:04] and i think if you don't if you're

[54:06] struggling but there's no water in the

[54:08] river to carry us

[54:10] further then it's not about it might be

[54:13] the same discomfort but one couple is is

[54:16] still cruising along somehow

[54:18] while struggling and another couple

[54:20] might be really stuck

[54:22] and there are not enough resources and

[54:24] that's where we have to bring somebody

[54:26] in otherwise we're just burning our life

[54:28] energy and we are burning our health

[54:30] over the long run on the long run

[54:34] and then we we and that's that's where

[54:36] it's the stagnation is

[54:38] needs to help the most so what you said

[54:40] terry

[54:41] bringing support in is very important

[54:44] and the other one is

[54:46] clarity is clarity when it's clear

[54:49] it's clear that it's clear when it's not

[54:52] clear

[54:53] it's clear that it's not clear and

[54:55] that's

[54:56] so whenever i have that question if it's

[54:59] the right relation or not

[55:00] all i know is that i'm not clear about

[55:02] it so i need a reflection

[55:04] in order to gain more clarity

[55:07] so that's very very powerful so then i

[55:10] know i need to look at it otherwise

[55:12] most probably i will take that unclarity

[55:14] anyway to any other relationship

[55:16] as well i have one closing question if

[55:19] you'd like to hear that

[55:20] because we're right on the top of the

[55:21] hour um and

[55:24] uh they're just there's the question is

[55:26] curious to know how each of you feel

[55:28] about the ability to move beyond trauma

[55:30] and triggers can we eventually be in our

[55:31] mature adult bodies alive with feelings

[55:33] and intelligence

[55:35] me living as a fully feeling

[55:37] untraumatized being so what's kind of

[55:39] the vision for where this work can go

[55:41] i think is the question well we

[55:44] i don't know you know therapists and

[55:46] spiritual teachers we may have different

[55:47] points of view on this

[55:49] i think that it's always with us i think

[55:51] our wounded child

[55:53] and our adaptive child will always be

[55:55] there

[55:56] as we heal they will be less intense

[55:59] uh we will be able to form a

[56:03] relationship with them and be intimate

[56:05] with them and parent them

[56:07] which is guiding them limiting them and

[56:10] being nurturing

[56:11] to them but these young parts of us are

[56:14] always for us

[56:15] to manage one of the things i say is

[56:17] maturity

[56:18] is dealing with your own inner children

[56:21] and not forcing them off on your partner

[56:23] to deal with

[56:24] the dealing with them gets easier as the

[56:27] traces of them get lighter as you do

[56:29] your work but i believe they're always

[56:31] there

[56:32] what do you say thomas yeah it depends

[56:36] i i i think it it might be always there

[56:40] and it might also be that we will loosen

[56:43] up step by step

[56:44] throughout our healing process and the

[56:48] the important part i would say also in

[56:51] that question

[56:52] is is that trauma that the

[56:55] notion or let's say a symptom of trauma

[56:58] is that i would love to be somewhere

[57:00] else

[57:02] to think about the ideal version of

[57:05] myself

[57:06] like how i would look like when i'm

[57:08] trauma healed

[57:09] is already part of the symptom because i

[57:12] can't be here

[57:14] and that's why i would say i don't think

[57:16] it matters so much

[57:17] if that place will be healed one day or

[57:21] not

[57:22] more is what helps us to really embody

[57:25] ourselves more

[57:26] and to meet those parts but with a with

[57:29] a

[57:30] higher or more or a deeper awareness

[57:33] and then see if we can every time we

[57:36] transform

[57:37] a layer of trauma into

[57:40] i often say there are three words that

[57:43] describe it it's reflect

[57:44] becoming aware that there's a drama

[57:47] digest

[57:48] digest the past in order to be able to

[57:52] integrate the past into post-traumatic

[57:56] learning

[57:56] and so we will see how much is really

[58:00] possible to be integrated and learn but

[58:03] every step we do strengthens the part

[58:06] that theory talks about is this

[58:08] the grown-up mature more wise part of us

[58:12] so if it will be entirely healed or not

[58:14] i don't think

[58:15] is really the question the question is

[58:17] do i sign up

[58:19] to be that process and i think that's

[58:22] that's the question am i willing to be

[58:24] that process and find out

[58:27] am i going to be intimate with myself

[58:29] someone asked phil caplo when you're

[58:31] enlightened

[58:32] are you still neurotic and he said you

[58:34] know before

[58:36] i did my spiritual work it was my

[58:38] neuroses

[58:39] and now it's like my neuroses

[58:44] that's someone who's done their work

Thomas Huebl
ArtistThomas Huebl

Thomas Hübl is a spiritual teacher and author who bridges mysticism and collective trauma healing. Since 2004, he has taught over 100,000 students through programs focused on syste…

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Trauma-relationshipsNervous-systemRelational-healingAncestral-traumaAdaptive-child

Got Questions?

Frequently Asked Questions

You're likely triggered if you become highly reactive, defensive, or shut down in response to your partner—especially if the intensity of your response doesn't match the current situation. Physical signs include tightness in your chest, heat in your face, or an urge to fight, flee, or freeze. These are signals that your adaptive child (the young part of you that learned to survive early overwhelm) has been activated.
Your nervous system learned specific patterns of danger as a child—a particular tone of voice, facial expression, or behavior that meant overwhelm. When your adult partner echoes any of those patterns, your adaptive child activates regardless of intent. Your partner becomes a projection screen for unresolved trauma, not because they are like your parent, but because they've triggered the same nervous system response.
Yes. Ancestral trauma—your grandfather's rage, your grandmother's anxiety, your parent's emotional unavailability—creates a nervous system pattern that can be passed down through generations. The pattern isn't genetic; it's embodied in how you learned to be safe, trust, or disconnect. When you heal your own reactivity, you interrupt that chain for the next generation.
The nervous system is relational. It was dysregulated in relationship (often with a caregiver), and it heals in relationship. Your partner can help by remaining calm and attuned while you're activated, which gradually teaches your nervous system that you're safe. However, this requires that your partner is also regulated and working on their own patterns. A trauma-informed therapist can also provide essential support.
The wounded child carries the original pain and vulnerability from overwhelm. The adaptive child is the automatic response system—the protective strategies you learned to manage threat (fighting, fleeing, freezing, people-pleasing, shutdown). In relationships, the adaptive child is often what gets triggered first, activating defensive patterns before you even recognize what's happening.
No. Body awareness and regulation are foundational but long-term practices. They create a gap between trigger and response—a space where choice becomes possible. Over time, this gap widens, allowing you to respond more consciously rather than automatically. But healing the underlying trauma patterns requires sustained practice, often with professional support.
The Big Lie is the belief that you or your partner can be fundamentally inferior or superior to the other. When triggered, you often take one of these positions: "I'm not okay and they are" (submission, self-blame) or "I'm okay and they are not" (contempt, criticism). Neither allows genuine intimacy. Healing means recognizing that both of you are whole beings with wounds, worthy of equal respect.
Normal conflict is about the specific issue—dishes, finances, schedules. Trauma-driven reactivity escalates disproportionately and often follows the same pattern repeatedly. You might find yourself having the same argument compulsively, or your partner's behavior triggers an intensity of emotion that doesn't match the situation. The key is that you lose access to clarity and can only access fight, flight, or freeze.

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